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#21
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"robert arndt" wrote in message m... http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz5.htm Better than any mass-produced piece-of-**** Sherman (except the Firefly British conversion). Russian T-34/85s and JS-2 tanks were even better than American ones and even they didn't fare well in engagements with the King Tiger. Ah, so King Tiger is a TANK. I thought it was a fruit. Largest lemon in the world, to be precise. |
#22
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In article , B2431
writes From: "L'acrobat" "Krztalizer" wrote in message ... Robert, you win the award for starting the "Most OT post" today. What's next? Planning on posting something on Rec.Arts.Needlepoint about nebelwerfers? Arndt mode on - THE NATIONAL SOCIALIST NEEDLEPOINT WAS CULTURALLY SUPERIOR TO ALL OTHER FORMS!!!!!! Arndt mode off. Invented, no doubt, by the Waffen SS special scientists? No, it was a Waffen SS field skill. They developed DPM camouflage clothing by embroidering their own uniforms... Cheers, Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired -- Moramarth |
#23
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And if you want a real test of Russian armour, send them to take Washington DC and see if *that* passes the giggle test. I always thought it would be a kick if the USSR ever tried an air assault or landing on the US. IF they think there's a lot of guns in the Middle East. . . |
#24
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"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message
... "John Mullen" wrote in message t... "Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message ... (snip) LOL.... nobody is saying that the Leo's are bad tanks. I haven't heard one person say that at all. They are fine tanks. German's are great (if somewhat overzealous) engineers. What we are saying, however, is that the Leo's are totally unproven in combat, and that all final judgements regarding any weapons system is contingent upon actual combat experience. The M1 series has plenty of combat time under it's belt, and has performed, by all measures, splendidly. It is a combat proven system and is a better tank than the Leopard. It has better armor, excellent targeting systems, and it fires a better round. Period. You need to get over it. As for it being 'Europe's premere MBT', what do you expect? It is probably better than the LeClerc (another parade ground princess), and pigs will fly before the protectionist European governments buy big-ticket items from the USA (and they don't need to; their domestic defense industries are adequate), but you have to understand that the military just isn't a priority there in Europe. The military is in fact on the bottom of their list. So you cannot expect a nation which takes a 'military-last' attitude to produce equipment superior to the USA, which actually may need to use the stuff at some point. Challenger II? To most of the EU, buying big-ticket items from the Brits is pretty much the same as buying from the USA. Great Britian is not a full EU participant, and (smartly) doesn't plan to be anytime soon. But the Challenger II is another fine, battle-proven piece of hardware. And anyone who says Russian tanks are garbage outta have his ass shipped out in an M-1A2 and land on the outskirts of Moscow in 50 degree below zero weather with Mils, Migs, and Sukhois flying about and Russian troops armed with ATGWs. One tank against the entire russian armed forces? Sure, what the hell.... But seriously, you are just being an idiot now (moreso). The scenario you just described is pretty much EXACTLY what the M1 tank was designed for. And you are also assuming that we would not have achieved air superiority before sending our armor in; which we would havem being that it is the US tactical doctorine to only send in ground forces after the air is secured. And the only bigger joke than the Russian army is the Russian air force (well maybe it's tied with their navy). We don't fight wars with just tanks. No takers?... didn't think so since the M-1A2 is confined to attacking puny nations with poor import stripped armor of the FSU crewed by sand-dwelling conscripts. LOL... 'confined'... whatever you say. And I'm not so sure that the modern Russian tank crews are any better trained than the Iraqi's were. Our armed forces are a total and complete overmatch for any other armed force on the globe. Period. It's not even close. Yeah, you are certainly doing a good job in Iraq just now. Yeah, we're losing tank battles left and right over there. I said 'armed forces' vs. other 'armed forces', which is what the Ghost of Hitler (aka Robert Arndt) posted as a hypothetical in the first place. USA vs. Russia. Or anyone else for that matter; there isn't a country in the world that can match the US military. The situation in Iraq is an insurgent force, and quite honestly, if we weren't so damn concerned about politics and 'collateral damage' we could have the insurgency put down in 12 hours. If you don't belive that, then you are a fool. And quite frankly, it's really only been a very short time anyway. I don't agree. I suppose I must be a fool. Check your words. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=insurgent in·sur·gent (n-sūrjnt) adj. 1.. Rising in revolt against established authority, especially a government. 2.. Rebelling against the leadership of a political party. There is no established authority in Iraq, nor is there any political leadership, therefore I would not say 'insurgent' is the right word at all. 'A very short time'? Bwah ha ha ha! So what would qualify as a long time in your world? Over a year seems likea long time to me, and I am sure to the people in Iraq. 12 hours? My ass. But, as I said, as a military, the US armed forces are second to none by a wide margin. You can make all the snide remarks you like, but it won't change anything. The envy, however, is palpable. It just may not quite be the time for this accusation. Unless you want to provoke laughter that is. Bogged down in Iraq. Publicly exposed as having tortured POWs. Losing what? 2 soldiers a day, against an enemy which was declared defeated a year ago? I don't see the grounds for envy there, personally. John |
#25
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"John Mullen" wrote:
"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message [..] The situation in Iraq is an insurgent force, and quite honestly, if we weren't so damn concerned about politics and 'collateral damage' we could have the insurgency put down in 12 hours. If you don't belive that, then you are a fool. And quite frankly, it's really only been a very short time anyway. I don't agree. I suppose I must be a fool. Check your words. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=insurgent in·sur·gent (n-sūrjnt) adj. 1.. Rising in revolt against established authority, especially a government. Try a different dictionary www.m-w.com 1. a person who revolts against civil authority or an established government; especially : a rebel not recognized as a belligerent "a rebel not recognized as a belligerent" and while you might not recognize it as a civil authority Paul Bremer does meet all of the requirements. |
#26
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On Sat, 08 May 2004 04:06:39 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:
Then there was the seldom-mentioned Krupp P1000 Rat. One THOUSAND tons. Two 280mm main guns. Or the P1500 variant with an 800mm mortar(!) and a couple of 150mm cannons... (I still have trouble believing that they were really thinking of building something like this, even early in the war). Quite, think of all the fist fights at allied airbases, typhoon and jug pilots going at it hammer and tongs, to try and decide who'd have the pleasure of plugging it. 8 x 60lb RPs or 8 x HVARS delivered at a suitable angle is really going to mess up someones day. greg -- "vying with Platt for the largest gap between capability and self perception" |
#27
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On Sat, 08 May 2004 02:35:18 GMT, "Thomas J. Paladino Jr."
wrote: First of all, are you insane? What is with you? Do you sit up at night and wish Hitler had won or something? The idiot clearly does, which is why he and his aussie kameraden is consigned to my sin bin. greg -- "vying with Platt for the largest gap between capability and self perception" |
#28
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On Sat, 8 May 2004 13:55:58 +0300, "Yama" wrote:
Ah, so King Tiger is a TANK. I thought it was a fruit. Largest lemon in the world, to be precise. For a true 'new underwear required' heavy tank of that period . The JS-7 prototype would be rather hard to be disregard. Thank Insert your deity here that the russian railway system wasnt upto transporting them. greg -- "vying with Platt for the largest gap between capability and self perception" |
#29
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#30
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In article ,
"L'acrobat" wrote: "Krztalizer" wrote in message ... Robert, you win the award for starting the "Most OT post" today. What's next? Planning on posting something on Rec.Arts.Needlepoint about nebelwerfers? Arndt mode on - THE NATIONAL SOCIALIST NEEDLEPOINT WAS CULTURALLY SUPERIOR TO ALL OTHER FORMS!!!!!! Arndt mode off. Well, ever since the invention of the entire *art* of needlepoint in 1938 Berlin, the US has done nothing except use the skills imported in the postwar "Project Latchhook," where many German sewing scientists were imported to create the unit patches for what became NASA. Of course, everyone knows about the WWII "Project Silverneedle," an early attempt at high-speed crosstitching that would have given the German armed forces a large number of high-durability wall hangings for their occupation of England and New York. -- cirby at cfl.rr.com Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations. Slam on brakes accordingly. |
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