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#1
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PPL and flight simulators
Benjamin Gawert wrote:
Are simulator hours (I mean "real" simulators, not just a Peecee running Ms Flight Simulator) countable as flying hours if the PIC has the PPL and the ratings/endorsements necessary to fly the type of aircraft the simulator represents? What requirements are necessary for the simulator to be recognised as valid? Can a simulator be used in a type rating? Use of approved simulator devices is allowed for training purposes. When you're a PP acting as PIC and would like to fly the approved sim and log the hours, my interpretation of FAR 61.57 is that you can do it and use it later towards a rating or to maintain VFR and IFR currency. - Slav Inger - PP ASEL IA @ YIP |
#2
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In article ,
Bob Esser wrote: I think you can even get a type rating on some simulators. It happens all the time. I got my Learjet type rating in a simulator. Different simulators can be used for different amounts of a type rating checkride depending on their level of certification. Some can be used for 100% of the checkride. Others can only be used for 80%. -- Larry Fransson Aviation software for Mac OS X! http://www.subcritical.com |
#3
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define "real" simulators... there are varying degrees "classes" beyond the
desktop PC, most are usable for IFR training, but as mentioned in a previous post, you need a CFII with you to log the training, just practice by your self, although good experience is not creditable towards log book hours or currency requirements. BT "Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message ... Are simulator hours (I mean "real" simulators, not just a Peecee running Ms Flight Simulator) countable as flying hours if the PIC has the PPL and the ratings/endorsements necessary to fly the type of aircraft the simulator represents? What requirements are necessary for the simulator to be recognised as valid? Can a simulator be used in a type rating? Benjamin |
#4
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BTIZ wrote:
define "real" simulators... A fully complete cockpit made of the cockpit parts of the real aircraft, with front visual system, force feedback, and some simulation of the g-forces pressing the pilot into the seat. A simulator that shows the exactly same behavior the real aircraft shows... there are varying degrees "classes" beyond the desktop PC, most are usable for IFR training, but as mentioned in a previous post, you need a CFII with you to log the training, just practice by your self, although good experience is not creditable towards log book hours or currency requirements. Right. I just want to know if I would log the sim hours if it would make any sense when having a PPL. Even if they at least count when making the CPL somewhen... Benjamin |
#5
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Larry Fransson wrote:
I think you can even get a type rating on some simulators. It happens all the time. I got my Learjet type rating in a simulator. That sound interesting. What requirements does the sim have to be able to to type ratings on it? Different simulators can be used for different amounts of a type rating checkride depending on their level of certification. Some can be used for 100% of the checkride. Others can only be used for 80%. Do You know what prerequisites are necessary for a sim being useable for 80%/100% of the checkride? Benjamin |
#6
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Larry knows more about this than I do, but the simulators have different
levels of fidelity. My understanding is these are labeled A-D, which D being the best. I think to do 100% of the rating it has to be at least level C, if not D. Check the FAR/AIMs for the details. I did some time in a MD-88 level D sim and you can feel the expansion strips as you taxi. Very impressive. jerry "Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message ... Larry Fransson wrote: Do You know what prerequisites are necessary for a sim being useable for 80%/100% of the checkride? Benjamin |
#7
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I don't know what the prices are now, but full-motion sims such as Larry
describes go for several hundred dollars an hour...I used to get an hour in a 737 sim for Christmas every year from a buddy who worked at a sim center. Bob Gardner "Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message ... BTIZ wrote: define "real" simulators... A fully complete cockpit made of the cockpit parts of the real aircraft, with front visual system, force feedback, and some simulation of the g-forces pressing the pilot into the seat. A simulator that shows the exactly same behavior the real aircraft shows... there are varying degrees "classes" beyond the desktop PC, most are usable for IFR training, but as mentioned in a previous post, you need a CFII with you to log the training, just practice by your self, although good experience is not creditable towards log book hours or currency requirements. Right. I just want to know if I would log the sim hours if it would make any sense when having a PPL. Even if they at least count when making the CPL somewhen... Benjamin |
#8
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In article ,
"JerryK" wrote: My understanding is these are labeled A-D, which D being the best. I think to do 100% of the rating it has to be at least level C, if not D. Check the FAR/AIMs for the details. I can never find the reference when I need it. I don't remember where it is. I'm not sure if you need a Level C simulator for a 100% checkride or if Level B will do. In any case, you have to meet certain experience requirements to receive an unrestricted type rating from a 100% simulator check. They include things like previous type ratings or applicable experience in actual aircraft. Lacking those prerequisites, you may receive a type rating that requires something on the order of 15 to 25 hours of "supervised PIC experience" which means essentially that you are carrying out the duties of PIC under the supervision of a qualified PIC. Once you have that logged, you take your log book down to the FSDO, they look at it, and then give you a new temporary certificate with an unrestricted type rating. At FlightSafety in Tucson where I go for annual recurrent training, they have two Lear 35 simulators - one a Level B and one a Level C. The Level B simulator used to be Level A. They got it certified to Level B so that they could use it more. Used to be we couldn't take our Part 135 checkrides in anything but the Level C sim because the level A sim somehow didn't meet the requirements. Last time I was there, they said something about having upgraded the A to a B so that they could use it for checkrides. I did some time in a MD-88 level D sim and you can feel the expansion strips as you taxi. Very impressive. Level D is supposed to be a much better simulation, and it does something resembling daylight simulation. It's pretty dark daylight inside, but certainly better than what they call daylight in a Level C sim, which is much closer to late dusk than anything else. I got to fly a 767 simulator a few weeks ago. I'll vouch for its fidelity to the real thing. When my wife (who doesn't fly except with me) couldn't remember how to stop after landing, we ended up swerving down the runway, dragging the left wing, and eventually skidding to a stop sideways in the grass. I have never dragged a wing in a 767 before, but I imagine the sound we heard was pretty close to what it would sound like if it really did happen. On the bad landings (which was most of them - my last one was the only really smooth one, and that's why it was the last one!), things (and unrestrained people) went flying around the flight deck. It seemed fairly real to me! -- Larry Fransson Aviation software for Mac OS X! http://www.subcritical.com |
#9
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"Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message ... That sound interesting. What requirements does the sim have to be able to to type ratings on it? Level D simulator which basically becomes so real even the weather depiction landing in low IFR conditions is realistic --- this is a multi-million $ sim. Do You know what prerequisites are necessary for a sim being useable for 80%/100% of the checkride? This is listed in a table in the PTS standards. -- Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com |
#10
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"BTIZ" wrote in message news:jiFPa.717$Je.481@fed1read04... define "real" simulators... there are varying degrees "classes" beyond the desktop PC, most are usable for IFR training, but as mentioned in a previous post, you need a CFII with you to log the training, just practice by your self, although good experience is not creditable towards log book hours or currency requirements. The only device which requires a CFII to make it loggable is a "PCATD," which is a personal computer aviation training device -- basically a computer with a yoke and rudder pedals. A PCATD requires a CFII in order for the time to count toward the instrument rating. The next step up is a "Flight Training Device" and can be graded from Level 1 through Level 6 depending on the degree of realism of the cockpit and visual display and controls. Even an older Level 1 Flight Training Device which has only an instrument panel and no visual display can be used toward IFR currency. It is acceptable for a CFII to administer an IPC in a flight training device; however, it is also acceptable for a pilot to use solo time in the flight training device toward instrument currency. A flight training device can range anywhere from instruments only with no motion to full-motion with 180-degree visual projection, a realistic cockpit, advanced avionics, and sophisticated failure scenarios. The next step up would be to a Level A through D "Simulator".. these are highly realistic motion-based simulators which almost always cost in the millions or at least high 6 figures.. it would be extremely unusual to use a Level A through D "Simulator" for piston general aviation training. My "simulator" which will be installed next week, for example, is actually a full-motion Level 3 Flight Training Device. It will indeed be creditable as logged time and for currency purposes. However, the time will count as "Flight Training Device" time and "Simulated Instrument Time" and not as airplane time. -- Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com |
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