THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 9/7/03 10:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time

Your buddy Robbie did more damage to the war effort in his childishness
that
his 55 missions did to help. It would have been better if Robbie had
stayed
home.

You are babbling about things you know nothing about. Your judgement about
combat has zero credibility since you were never there.

Stopping Patton was a bad thing.

Subject: THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 9/7/03 10:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 9/7/03 10:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time

Your buddy Robbie did more damage to the war effort in his childishness
that
his 55 missions did to help. It would have been better if Robbie had
stayed
home.

You are babbling about things you know nothing about. Your judgement about
combat has zero credibility since you were never there.

Stopping Patton was a bad thing.


..Nothing stopped Patton imbecile. Have you no sense of history you fool.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

(ArtKramr) wrote:

A question occured to me during this discussion of Patton being
stopped because of all the damage caused by a bomb-load being
jettisoned, bridges blown up, roads obliterated etc.

Weren't bombs dropped 'on safe' during jettison?...I know for a
fact that modern bombers can choose whether to arm (or not) their
ordnance, so why did that jettison cause so much damage?...

Mind you, I'm not looking to add fuel to this flame-war but I'm
curious.
--

-Gord.


Good question. We had no safe salvo option. If you salvoed, they all went out
amed and we had the arming wires to show for it. Over the PO valley I got me a
battle star because of live Salvo. But that is another story for another time.


Arthur Kramer

Are you saying that there was no _option_ to drop ordnance 'safe'
at all then?. Or was it _policy_ to jettison 'live' just in case
there was interesting enemy items below, is that it then?...

I know that the shackles in the bomb-bays of the Lancasters,
Neptunes and Argus all had an electrical solenoid holding the end
of the arming wire in the shackle. When a 'safe drop' was needed
then this solenoid was powered which allowed the arming wire to
be pulled out of the shackle when the bomb was released therefore
the bomb wouldn't arm itself. That wasn't the case on the B-26 I
assume?.
--

-Gord.

Subject: THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON
From: "Gord Beaman" )
Date: 9/7/03 11:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote:

A question occured to me during this discussion of Patton being
stopped because of all the damage caused by a bomb-load being
jettisoned, bridges blown up, roads obliterated etc.

Weren't bombs dropped 'on safe' during jettison?...I know for a
fact that modern bombers can choose whether to arm (or not) their
ordnance, so why did that jettison cause so much damage?...

Mind you, I'm not looking to add fuel to this flame-war but I'm
curious.
--

-Gord.


Good question. We had no safe salvo option. If you salvoed, they all went
out
amed and we had the arming wires to show for it. Over the PO valley I got
me a
battle star because of live Salvo. But that is another story for another
time.


Arthur Kramer

Are you saying that there was no _option_ to drop ordnance 'safe'
at all then?. Or was it _policy_ to jettison 'live' just in case
there was interesting enemy items below, is that it then?...

I know that the shackles in the bomb-bays of the Lancasters,
Neptunes and Argus all had an electrical solenoid holding the end
of the arming wire in the shackle. When a 'safe drop' was needed
then this solenoid was powered which allowed the arming wire to
be pulled out of the shackle when the bomb was released therefore
the bomb wouldn't arm itself. That wasn't the case on the B-26 I
assume?.
--

-Gord.


Nope. Safe Salvo was not an option. We didn't have a "safe" switch at all. We
salvoed over the PO Valley through the clouds and hit Panzers engaged in
battle. We all got battle stars for the Po Valley for that one. It was the only
"easy" battle start I ever won. I think our air generals worried about too many
safe releases over enemy targets so they just removed that option.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In message , "Gord
writes
I know that the shackles in the bomb-bays of the Lancasters,
Neptunes and Argus all had an electrical solenoid holding the end
of the arming wire in the shackle. When a 'safe drop' was needed
then this solenoid was powered which allowed the arming wire to
be pulled out of the shackle when the bomb was released therefore
the bomb wouldn't arm itself.

Same with the EMRUs (electromagnetic release units) and other launch
systems the kit I worked on interfaced with. "Safe jettison" was an
absolute requirement.


--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

Your buddy Robbie did more damage to the war effort in his childishness

Childishness? The poor guy had two choices; descend to an extremely low
altitude and become target practice for every Jerry with a 7mm or greater, or
jettison his weapons and RTB. He chose the latter (as would *every* aviator
given those choices). Was it bad luck that his weapons destroyed a bridge and
slowed 3rd Army's advance? Yes. Was it intentional? No. Is it funny? Well, in
my opinion, no, but in certain situations with casulties every day, I don't
find it hard to believe that some found the humor in it. Sometimes its hard to
see a "cause-effect" relationship and much easier to see a ; "when its your
time, its your time" relationship.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 9/7/03 10:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 9/7/03 10:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time

Your buddy Robbie did more damage to the war effort in his
childishness that
his 55 missions did to help. It would have been better if Robbie had
stayed
home.

You are babbling about things you know nothing about. Your judgement
about
combat has zero credibility since you were never there.

Stopping Patton was a bad thing.


.Nothing stopped Patton imbecile. Have you no sense of history you fool.

You have no sense of how many lives it costs to take a bridge intact, Art.

" wrote:

(ArtKramr) wrote:


Are you saying that there was no _option_ to drop ordnance 'safe'
at all then?. Or was it _policy_ to jettison 'live' just in case
there was interesting enemy items below, is that it then?...

I know that the shackles in the bomb-bays of the Lancasters,
Neptunes and Argus all had an electrical solenoid holding the end
of the arming wire in the shackle. When a 'safe drop' was needed
then this solenoid was powered which allowed the arming wire to
be pulled out of the shackle when the bomb was released therefore
the bomb wouldn't arm itself. That wasn't the case on the B-26 I
assume?.
--

-Gord.


Nope. Safe Salvo was not an option. We didn't have a "safe" switch at all. We
salvoed over the PO Valley through the clouds and hit Panzers engaged in
battle. We all got battle stars for the Po Valley for that one. It was the only
"easy" battle start I ever won. I think our air generals worried about too many
safe releases over enemy targets so they just removed that option.


Arthur Kramer

Ok...makes sense, thanks...
--

-Gord.


Sounds like a serious problem on takeoff could result in some pretty
nasty damage close to home - must have happened a few times?

Dave

Subject: THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON
From: Dave Holford
Date: 9/7/03 2:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:



" wrote:

(ArtKramr) wrote:


Are you saying that there was no _option_ to drop ordnance 'safe'
at all then?. Or was it _policy_ to jettison 'live' just in case
there was interesting enemy items below, is that it then?...

I know that the shackles in the bomb-bays of the Lancasters,
Neptunes and Argus all had an electrical solenoid holding the end
of the arming wire in the shackle. When a 'safe drop' was needed
then this solenoid was powered which allowed the arming wire to
be pulled out of the shackle when the bomb was released therefore
the bomb wouldn't arm itself. That wasn't the case on the B-26 I
assume?.
--

-Gord.


Nope. Safe Salvo was not an option. We didn't have a "safe" switch at all.
We
salvoed over the PO Valley through the clouds and hit Panzers engaged in
battle. We all got battle stars for the Po Valley for that one. It was the
only
"easy" battle start I ever won. I think our air generals worried about too
many
safe releases over enemy targets so they just removed that option.


Arthur Kramer

Ok...makes sense, thanks...
--

-Gord.


Sounds like a serious problem on takeoff could result in some pretty
nasty damage close to home - must have happened a few times?

Dave



Go to my website and read "Death on the Runway"


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 9/7/03 2:14 PM Pacific

You have no sense of how many lives it costs to take a bridge intact,
Art.

How would you know?

The Germans didn't just help us out by leaving that bridge. Even an old
toggler like Art knows that.