IFR in the 1930's

Badwater Bill wrote:


The turn needle is much better.

I had heard this, so that's what I put in my Maule when I bought it. Still
don't know why it's better, though.

George Patterson
Brute force has an elegance all its own.

Today we have all these fancy gadgets but most of the time we still depend
on the old wet compass for heading data. Every figured what you would do if
the wet compass goes TA while you are in the soup and all you have is a
manually set DG? Been there.


It's not in the soup, but I've been out in the wild boonies of the Razorbacks
in western Arkansas, second week of December, single seat turbine ag plane, no
heat, no defrost, no windscreen wiper, nothing. I had a five hundred foot
ceiling and one mile visibility, temp. 33 degrees in misting rain. That had me
on my toes, from cold as much as anything, but I wasn't overly worried yet.
Then I started picking up ice. Not bad (as if it could ever be *good*), but my
spidey sense was definitely starting to tingle. I'd go through a thermocline
and pick some up, then warmer air and it would immediately melt. Garmin 195
loses sat lock, pull out the back up Garmin Pilot III, no joy, last resort,
pull out the Palm Pilot with the Delorme GPS which won't work either. No
attitude instruments of any type, no DG, no VOR, no radios but an Icom A-22
with a rubber duckie antenna and the wet compass won't move but a few degrees
no matter what due to the field thrown by the starter/generator. I'll never
forget it, I was flying east and it was stuck on 240 degrees. Hehe, I have
been in more comforting situations. Luckily I just happened to pick out a set
of railroad tracks that led me right to what I think was the most beautiful
airport I've ever seen in Mena, AR. Man, I love to fly, but sometimes it's
damn good to be on the ground.

"G.R. Patterson III" writes:

A skilled pilot can keep one straight and level by the feel of the
relative wind on his cheeks and the sound of the wind in the wires,
combined with the ball and altimeter.

I'm not too sure about the first two -- if relative wind told you
anything at all about whether the wings were level, we be able to use
something simpler than gyroscopic instruments for IFR today. It you
take the last two, ball and altimeter, and add the magnetic compass,
then it would be at least theoretically possible to fly straight
(-ish) and level (-ish) in IMC, though they probably just flew very
close to the ground, as Durden's article suggested.


All the best,


David

Lots of the pilots simply put the mail on the train if things
got too bad.


--------------------------------------------------
IFR = I Follow Railroads

Old joke but true.

I learned to love railroads the first time I ferried an airplane cross-country.
Compass proved to be about ninety degrees off flying east to west (and I to
get from Ohio to Sandy Eggo). Altimeter stuck at 2500 feet... and stayed there
until the second bounce of the next landing. Had a spiffy new leather Pilot's
Case for all those charts, couple of notebooks filled with Good Information...
that turned out to be faiery tales ("They went out of business last summer"
or, "We've always closed at five. Least ways, in the winter.")

Ended up using an Esso road map because it showed all the railroads (at least,
for the western United States).

I'd be happy as a clam with needle, ball and alcohol, so long as that fan up
front keeps turning and the little wheel in back don't fall off.

-R.S.Hoover

. Man, I love to fly, but sometimes it's
damn good to be on the ground.

Yep. Here's a good one for ya. I was 16 years old in an Aeronica
Champ 85 and decided to fly to the Grand Canyon from Boulder City
Nevada. I had about 40 hours at the time. There were a few clouds,
but nothing heavy. I motored toward the Grand Canyon south rim
airport at about 2000 feet AGL. As I got closer and my fuel got to be
less, the clouds got to be more. I did have a radio of all things and
the ground told me they had a broken to overcast ceiling of nearly
1500 feet. I had climbed to about 3000 agl by that time and was stuck
on top. I knew the terrain sloped down toward the south and I also
knew that the alcohol compass leads the turn when you point south. I
got about 500 feet above the clouds and held a heading of exactly
south...got her all trimmed up so she was on a 500 ft/min decent with
my hands off the stick. I let go completely and drove that litte
champ with my feet, ever so lightly, holding that big "S" in the
compass window. Slight changes in heading caused the compass to
really lead and it was real sensitive. I just held it with all my
concentration as I entered the clouds. And it was smooth that day too
so this really worked well. I was in the clouds for what seemed like
an eternity. Then after many minutes, it seemed, I popped out and saw
the airport to my 9 o'clock position.

Got lucky once more. Ha!

Badwater "Don't need no damn turn coordinator" Bill

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:30:47 -0400, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:



Badwater Bill wrote:


The turn needle is much better.

I had heard this, so that's what I put in my Maule when I bought it. Still
don't know why it's better, though.

George Patterson
Brute force has an elegance all its own.


I'll tell you why. The needle only shows a real turn of the nose.
The turn coordinator will bank on you if you rock the wings and the
nose stays pointed straight ahead. So, the turn coordinator gives you
fales information. If you hit a bump and your left wing lifts
momentarily, the turn coordinator will bank right on you when you
aren't turning at all. Hell, in turbulence the son of a bitch is all
over the place and is unusable. The needle works on a gyro that ONLY
makes the needle move if your nose is changing heading just like the
DG.

You can see the problem. The turn coordinator gives you too much
information but it gives the same indication if you bank or if you
stomp a peddle. That's no good. You don't know what really is
happening...it could be either.

Badwater, "you can stuff them damn turn coordinators" Bill

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:28:43 -0400, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:



Dick wrote:

Staring at my empty instrument panel while considering which instruments and
their placement, I got wondering how old time Mail pilots flew if caught in
IFR conditions.

By the 30's, the mail was going by airlines. I assume you mean the old open
cockpit planes of the 20's (like the Pitcairn Mailwing or the earlier Jennie).
A skilled pilot can keep one straight and level by the feel of the relative
wind on his cheeks and the sound of the wind in the wires, combined with the
ball and altimeter. This still isn't as good as a gyro stack, and the accident
rate was high. Lots of the pilots simply put the mail on the train if things
got too bad.

Lindberg discusses some of this in one of his books, and Gann has at least two
novels about the period. I've also read an old book by a veteran mail pilot,
but I have no idea any more what the title was (I checked it out from either
the Knoxville public library or the Bearden High School library in the 60's).

George Patterson
Brute force has an elegance all its own.


You guys must not remember the "Cat and Duck" method of flying
instruments. Hell, when I was a kid in the 1950's that's all we used.
Any of you young punks know what the hell I'm talking about?

BWB

"G.R. Patterson III" writes:

A skilled pilot can keep one straight and level by the feel of the
relative wind on his cheeks and the sound of the wind in the wires,

Hmm, in a old airplane like that I'd say the relative wind is pretty much
always gonna be about 80-90 mph off the nose! :^)

Lindberg discusses some of this in one of his books, and Gann has at least two
novels about the period. I've also read an old book by a veteran mail pilot,
but I have no idea any more what the title was (I checked it out from either
the Knoxville public library or the Bearden High School library in the 60's).

George Patterson
Brute force has an elegance all its own.


You guys must not remember the "Cat and Duck" method of flying
instruments. Hell, when I was a kid in the 1950's that's all we used.
Any of you young punks know what the hell I'm talking about?

BWB
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hey -
I'm still a young punk....
at heart.


http://www.skyhawk.org/2D/tinduck.htm
http://www.flippyscatpage.com/instrument.html
http://jokes-quotes.com/contentid-239.html
http://www.eaa445.org/instrument.htm
http://www.ahajokes.com/ani031.html
http://monster-island.org/tinashumor/humor/catduck.html


Barnyard BOb -- 50 years of flight

In article et, Bill Daniels wrote:

Every figured what you would do if
the wet compass goes TA while you are in the soup and all you have is a
manually set DG? Been there.

Declare an emergency and request a no-gyro approach. If I'm out
of radar coverage, then I guess I'd just start compensating for drift
as though there were wind, even though it's really precession error.
That would get kind of difficult eventually, so I might be tempted to
reset it based on what I thought the winds really were when I appeared
to be tracking a course accurately. It probably wouldn't be any
worse afterwards....

Did you have some suggestions in mind when you asked the
question? If so, I for one would like to hear them.

Regards,

Mike