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#11
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Mechanical Vario
On Sep 23, 1:25 pm, Jeff Runciman
wrote: This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for a few more responses. Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the panel. Would love to hear what people have in their panel. Jeff Hi Jeff - The ILEC SB-9 is a 2 1/4" self-contained backup vario with audio, and charges from the normal ship's power. That's what I have as a backup in my Antares 20E, though this glider has "more than adequate electrical power" available. Best Regards, Dave "YO" |
#12
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Mechanical Vario
On Sep 24, 5:54 am, wrote:
On Sep 23, 1:25 pm, Jeff Runciman wrote: This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for a few more responses. Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the panel. Would love to hear what people have in their panel. Jeff Hi Jeff - The ILEC SB-9 is a 2 1/4" self-contained backup vario with audio, and charges from the normal ship's power. That's what I have as a backup in my Antares 20E, though this glider has "more than adequate electrical power" available. Best Regards, Dave "YO" All I have is a Cambridge (I think) mechanical vario that i bought on RAS. I did make up a TE prob a la dick johnson plans last winter and it works as well as i could expect for a home made TE probe. Id love to add audio, anyone know a cheap source? the only other hole in my panel is sized for the vintage crossfell vario that was in the glider when i got it. too bad it didnt work to well. it had a diaphragm TE system and ran on a couple D cells. |
#13
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Mechanical Vario
On Sep 24, 2:53 am, Jose Jimenez nospam@please wrote:
Considering that the Bohli vario is the only truly accurate vario, I woldn't want to fly without one. Jose, would you care to expand on that statement? the original question: My preference is for electric vario as backup, for audio, reliability, and responsiveness. I use a Westerboer (sp?) 911, and I have two separate electrical systems in my glider. The most likely point of failure in my ship is the TE probe, which would affect either kind of vario...(my other system is an SN10) I've never had an electrical failure in over 2400 hours of flying gliders (so I'm due, obviously). Never had an electric vario fail inflight. I have flown with a lot of really bad mechanical varios (in club and rental ships) and hate them. I find that I thermal on audio, rarely looking at instantaneous lift value at all - since it is really the change in lift that I care about in the short term (to center the thermal). So a simple mechanical would be just a hole-filler. YMMV, of course. Kirk 66 |
#14
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Mechanical Vario
Jeff Runciman wrote:
This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for a few more responses. Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the panel. Would love to hear what people have in their panel. Jeff go for the electric backup that has it's own battery or internal rechargable battery. No sense being w/o an audio. |
#15
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Mechanical Vario
I've always had a backup vario. Some were electric, others mechanical.
Some were completely separate (power, static, TE, pitot), others had a common point of failure (usually the TE probe and/or electrical bus/ common battery selector switch). I'm not sure there's a perfect answer although the small, self contained electonic vario with audio/averager sounds good if you could connect it to a separate TE source. [On that note, I had a running correspondence with one of the major vario/flight computer systems last year about offering electronic TE as a backup option. His contention was that it didn't work as well as a good TE probe. My point was that if the probe failed (it's happens), I'd like to have a backup TE vario. We never came to a common understanding although I think one of the major manufacturers offers something like this.] Get something good enough to fly a contest with, not just to limp home. That way you'll be familiar with it when your primary vario does fail. I've had batteries fail with little warning (yes, I have a backup). The panel-mounted fuse holder came loose at one national contest and provided intermittant power. One mechanical vario failed suddenly. And the pressure capsule in my ASI failed at another national contest which not only gave me no airspeed info but also removed the netto and speed-to-fly info from my primary vario/flight computer. If you fly long enough, something will fail. Provide redundancy with as few common points of failure as possible, then go fly. Chip Bearden ASW 24 "JB" USA |
#16
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Mechanical Vario
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#17
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Mechanical Vario
At 22:30 23 September 2007, Dan G wrote:
If my primary (electric audio) vario failed it most likely be because of a general power failure, which would have also have left me without radio, GPS and logger. If I did want to use a mechanical vario, I'd have to go 'heads down', which is something I just won't do. I'd fly home via the seat of my pants. So, no mechanical vario here. The words of a K8 flying stroker! Get a life - any reasonably experienced pilot is perfectly safe with the odd glance at a mechanical vario! My advice would be to have at least one back-up vario either mechanical or electrical. (I fly with Cambridge, so I have a backup everything, plus a mechanical). As always buy the best you can afford. A 302 is a pretty good vario and only fills one 57mm hole, and then you get a back-up GPS as well. If you are lucky enough to be able to afford this, then its an option. |
#18
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Mechanical Vario
Good point about TE probe failure. I've been thinking about adding a Dick
Johnson midship probe. I'll keep my tail mounted probe as a backup. About battery failure. I've never known of a failure except in very new (rare) or very old batteries. I had a conversation with a pilot I saw with three huge batteries under his arm walking toward his glider. Q. Why so many? A. They might fail. Q. How old are they? A. I dunno, they came with the glider Q. How long have you owned the glider? A. 10 years. Sealed Lead Acid rechargables are really only reliable for three years whether on the shelf or in use. I start with a fresh one every two years. I also go through the wiring at least twice a season. So far, no failures. Bill D "Chip Bearden" wrote in message ups.com... I've always had a backup vario. Some were electric, others mechanical. Some were completely separate (power, static, TE, pitot), others had a common point of failure (usually the TE probe and/or electrical bus/ common battery selector switch). I'm not sure there's a perfect answer although the small, self contained electonic vario with audio/averager sounds good if you could connect it to a separate TE source. [On that note, I had a running correspondence with one of the major vario/flight computer systems last year about offering electronic TE as a backup option. His contention was that it didn't work as well as a good TE probe. My point was that if the probe failed (it's happens), I'd like to have a backup TE vario. We never came to a common understanding although I think one of the major manufacturers offers something like this.] Get something good enough to fly a contest with, not just to limp home. That way you'll be familiar with it when your primary vario does fail. I've had batteries fail with little warning (yes, I have a backup). The panel-mounted fuse holder came loose at one national contest and provided intermittant power. One mechanical vario failed suddenly. And the pressure capsule in my ASI failed at another national contest which not only gave me no airspeed info but also removed the netto and speed-to-fly info from my primary vario/flight computer. If you fly long enough, something will fail. Provide redundancy with as few common points of failure as possible, then go fly. Chip Bearden ASW 24 "JB" USA |
#19
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Mechanical Vario
On Sep 24, 10:29 am, Martin Gregorie
wrote: wrote: On Sep 24, 5:54 am, wrote: On Sep 23, 1:25 pm, Jeff Runciman wrote: This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for a few more responses. Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the panel. Would love to hear what people have in their panel. Jeff Hi Jeff - The ILEC SB-9 is a 2 1/4" self-contained backup vario with audio, and charges from the normal ship's power. That's what I have as a backup in my Antares 20E, though this glider has "more than adequate electrical power" available. Best Regards, Dave "YO" All I have is a Cambridge (I think) mechanical vario that i bought on RAS. I did make up a TE prob a la dick johnson plans last winter and it works as well as i could expect for a home made TE probe. Id love to add audio, anyone know a cheap source? eBay or other pilots replacing varios? Seriously, I'd look for a used Borgelt B40 (its now replaced by the B400 but still fully supported by Borgelt) or a Tasman V1000 (used or new). Both are relatively inexpensive. I've flown with and like both. The B40 has an internal battery for backup. The Tasman is pretty unbreakable thanks to its LCD display. Both have an averager: you push a button on the B40 to read average while the Tasman shows instantaneous and average all the time. Both make nice noises. the only other hole in my panel is sized for the vintage crossfell vario that was in the glider when i got it. How big is a Crossfell? Both the B40 and Tasman fit a 57mm (2 1/4") hole. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org |- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - the crosfell is smaller than a 2 1/4 standard instrument, i could probably cut the panel out to a bigger size though. thanks for the tip on the B40 and Tasman, ill check them out. would have to add another wire from my fancy pantsy 12 V battery electrical system. |
#20
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Mechanical Vario
On Sep 24, 4:19 pm, Owain Walters
wrote: As for the 'heads down' comment, I cant see why having a mechanical vario would force your head down the entire time. Surely a glance at the variometer every now and again doesnt make your lookout become dangerous? No, it doesn't. I was trying to imagine centering a thermal with only a mechanical, which would probably demand more head-down time. I admit though I have little experience of complex vario/flight computers - I'm not a comp pilot and think vario technology peaked with the B40 :-). Must agree with Kirk on the quality of mechanical varios - I've not flown a glider where the mechanical agrees with the electric! I suspect that on a lot of gliders the mechanical, being the back-up, doesn't get the TLC it needs to remain accurate (I'm sure they were when new). Dan |
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