I'm going to "Laser" a pilot.

"Doug" wrote in message

This isn't meant to be a scientific experiment or to become information
used instead of any government research or guidelines. OK?

I think you are missing the point Happy Dog... Frying eyeballs at 3500ft
with a 5mw device is not the question.

That's the claim.

I suspect the terrorists want to verify their ability to point a higher
powered, possibly useful weapon.

Like a cheap hunting rifle? You "suspect"? Any evidence that "the
terrorists want to verify their ability to point a higher powered, possibly
useful weapon"? "The terrorists"? Are you stupid? Clinically paranoid?
Pick one. GA has been bent over and ****ed for the last four years for
absolutely no defensible reason. The laser incidents are a perfect example.
You got some evidence to the contrary? Produce or shut up. Homeland
insecurity doesn't give **** one about us beyond Boyer. (You a member?) In
the meantime:

The whole thing is crap. It's homeopathic psoriasis-curing crap.
Multi-level marketing crap. Girls waiting for your call crap. Flying
yourself is cheaper than driving crap. Flying yourself is cheaper than
flying commercial crap. PPL for 3000.00 crap. ATP and a career for
10,000.00 crap. Flight schools that actually make money that promoting the
previous crap crap. You can get insurance to fly your GIII anywhere for
less than first class tickets for you and your family every week crap.
Parachutes that statistically change the GA accident rate crap. Parachutes
that won't save you better than a Vso, Vg, *whatever* crash at night crap.
Twin eninges will save your life crap. Twin engines will, engine failure
over cold water, (holy christ, *that's* a sobering thought) due to the
statistical improbablility of having to swim not make it worth it to own one
if you can afford it crap. Pilot error crap. Investigator error crap.
Ground crew fueling ****up crap. Fuel transfer mismanagement crap. Ten, or
twenty, tank drains will save you crap. Somebody *elses* fault crap. I
would have put it down on the fairway crap. I have no opinion about that
crap. Gear up landing because ATC rushed me crap. Night flying (over 100
hrs) isn't IFR flying crap. Alternative to regular exercise "xxx" to get
your mill to TBO crap. Graphic in-cockpit display of IFR approaches will
save your life crap. Navigating NYC Terminal Air Space with just a map
crap. Flying is safer than driving your car crap. Planes, boats and
hookers (guys OR girls) are a good investment crap.

ARRRGHHHH. NOW you've done it! From sci.physics, Uncle raileth:

It is the worst kind of pandering magnetic hernia truss multi- level
marketing to make you rich beyond your wildest dreams by tomorrow without so
much as a lick of personal inconvenience crap. It is Lotto crap, Publisher's
Clearinghouse crap, Home Shopping Network crap, infomercial crap, Bre-X
crap, hollow Earth crap, flat Earth crap, Heaven's Gate crap, Chariots of
the Gods crap, quartz crystal crap, teleevangelical crap, thinner thighs in
30 days crap, other-ablement crap, Virgin Mary on a taco crap, Elvis on a
taco crap, War on Drugs crap, War on Poverty crap, night basketball crap,
eat oat bran crap, breast enlargement cream crap, buy the Brooklyn Bridge at
only a tiny fraction of its true value crap, 1000-year old ginseng crap,
5000 yogic floaters to cleanse the world crap, free energy crap, anti-
gravity crap, hot young girls waiting for your call crap, psychics hot line
crap, never change your engine oil again crap, interpret your dreams crap,
sure-fire horse betting crap, Superman squeezing a lump of coal into a blue
white and perfect fully faceted 290 carat diamond crap...
.... Peace Dividend crap, Bosnian/Somali/Northern Ireland/Iraqi pacification
crap, peace in our time crap, Pacem in Terris crap, Limits to Growth crap,
Whip Inflation Now crap, I am not a crook crap, nukular engineer crap, I
didn't inhale crap, Health Care Crisis crap, Department of Energy crap,
marijuana will kill you crap, chastity crap, tobacco isn't addictive crap,
burning tobacco isn't carcinogenic crap, children kidnapped over the
Internet and sold into hebephile pornography crap...

....MBA crap, human factors engineering crap, social engineering crap,
Project Head Start crap, thousand points of light crap, compassion crap,
nurturance crap, sensitivity counseling crap, Special Olympics crap,
learning disablement crap, Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity/diversity
crap, multiculturalism crap, multilingualism crap, Kwanzaa crap, Days of
Rage crap, Nobel Prize in Literature crap, automotive airbags crap, commuter
lane crap, the E*L*E*C*T*R*I*C car crap, recycled post-consumer waste crap,
low volume flush toilet crap, fuel from biomass crap...

....Workers' Paradise crap, Democratic Republic of [you name it] crap, New
Soviet Man crap, Save the Earth crap, Furbish lousewort crap, clothe animals
to hide their genitalia crap, N-rays crap, Krebiozen crap, amygdalin crap,
smart drugs crap, coffee enemas to cure cancer crap, cosmic consciousness
crap, orgone energy crap, aura crap, astral plane crap, astrology crap,
ouija board crap...

Crap, crap, crap.

LOVE Usenet!

moo

What a load of crap.

Dear Mr. H. Dog,

There is some debate wheter or not these lasers do any harm.
Another rumour is that fast spinning objects are invulnerable to high
power lasers.
Well, combine those two.
You are going to use a low power one so the spinning does have to be
very fast.
I think the roll rate of a plane will be enough.
So, roll your plane as fast as possible on final approach and see what
happens(Do not forget to level wings just before touch down)
Present your findings to the FAA.
Maybe they make it a rule that everybody has to roll their planes on
final because it is much safer in case of a terrorist attack with laser
pointers.

-Kees

Happy Dog wrote:
...
Are you stupid? Clinically paranoid?
Pick one. GA has been bent over and ****ed for the last four years for
absolutely no defensible reason.
...six thousand word pointless rant removed...

Dear M. Happy Dog,

Re your rather sharp concerns about paranoia: As soon as practicable,
take a look at www.buying-medication.com/Prosac.htm. Also, you should
equip yourself with a tin foil hat which should increase your sculls
albedo in addition to protecting you from FAA/CIA scanning.

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 07:11:33 -0500, "Happy Dog"
wrote in
::

The whole thing is crap.

You're obviously THE crap expert, and a credit to the public image of
airmen everywhere. :-) But then, I wouldn't expect anything less from
an anonymous usenet poster.

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:53:03 +0000, 10Squared
wrote in ::

Laser device in question has a rated power of 5 mW.

Actually, some are available with over 10 times that power:
http://www.wickedlasers.com/products.php

However, as you assert, they are probably still incapable of
inflicting retinal damage at the distances involved when aimed at an
aircraft in flight.

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
. ..
"Casey Wilson" N2310D @ gmail.com wrote in

1. Acquire a standard optometrist eye chart.
[A television resolution chart would be a good substitute]
2. Before each exposure, determine visual acuity.
3. After each exposure, repeat acuity test
4. Start at a lower exposure duration and work up.
[This may require performing the test(s) on separate nights]
5. Do the whole thing during the day, facing away from the sun.
6. Chart your work

Hmmm, before step 1, check your medical insurance and have an
optometrist or opthomalogist do a retinal scan, before and after.


Apart from the retinal scan, pointless. The claim is that tiny lasers can
blind pilots. It's bull****. There isn't even a valid theory behind it.
My work is just entertainment.

Truth be told, I agree that the hysteria regarding the lasers, as you
succinctly put it in a later post, is a load of it. My suggestions in the
list were to give your test some data points that, while not scientific,
would show trends, if any. What you end up with may be publishable.

Larry Dighera wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:53:03 +0000, 10Squared
wrote in ::

Laser device in question has a rated power of 5 mW.

Actually, some are available with over 10 times that power:
http://www.wickedlasers.com/products.php

However, as you assert, they are probably still incapable of
inflicting retinal damage at the distances involved when aimed at an
aircraft in flight.

OK, let's see what happens with their most wicked laser. I see the Extreme
Phoenix with a power rating of 500mW. The quoted beam divergence is 1.2
mrad. Assuming a distance of 1 km,

a = 1.2 mrad
tan a = x / 1 * 10^3
x = 10^3 * m * x tan a
tan a =~ a
x = 1.2 * 10^3 * 10^-3 * m = 1.2 meters

To be conservative, let's use the beam divergence of only .5 mrad, or .5
meters at 1 km:

..5 m = 50 cm
p = 500 mW / (3.141 * 25 * 25 * cm^2)

Your 500 mW laser has a power of about .25 mW/cm^2 at 1 km. Again, much less
than the MPE for constant exposure. That brings up another point: Who is
going to stare at a laser? Brief exposure is uncomfortable and will cause
you to look away quickly, so MPE equation #2 is probably the one that
applies.

moo


wrote in message
oups.com...
Dear Mr. H. Dog,

There is some debate wheter or not these lasers do any harm.
Another rumour is that fast spinning objects are invulnerable to high
power lasers.
Well, combine those two.
You are going to use a low power one so the spinning does have to be
very fast.
I think the roll rate of a plane will be enough.
So, roll your plane as fast as possible on final approach and see what
happens(Do not forget to level wings just before touch down)
Present your findings to the FAA.
Maybe they make it a rule that everybody has to roll their planes on
final because it is much safer in case of a terrorist attack with laser
pointers.

-Kees

"Larry Dighera"
wrote in
::

The whole thing is crap.

You're obviously THE crap expert, and a credit to the public image of
airmen everywhere. :-) But then, I wouldn't expect anything less from
an anonymous usenet poster.

Hardly anonymous. I post from my ISP. HD is a registered name. It's even
on my Visa.

moo