Good sailplanes for tall pilots?

On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 7:29:11 AM UTC+12, PGS wrote:
On Thursday, September 8, 2016 at 11:29:19 AM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Thursday, September 8, 2016 at 3:56:37 PM UTC+3, wrote:
Le jeudi 8 septembre 2016 13:54:56 UTC+2, a écritÂ*:
On Thursday, September 8, 2016 at 6:12:37 AM UTC-5, joesimmers wrote:
Since you are snug in the G103, the roomiest cockpit
out there is the Genesis.


Now that I think about it, I recall that the G103 had some crazy thick pads in the seat. At the time, I was fairly new to gliders, so it didn't occur to me that the pad thickness could be changed out. I think what I should do is:
1. Test the seat with no pads. If it's too tight, then that ship is off the list.
2. Test it with whatever pads the owner has. If I still fit, great.. If not, then I know that a thinner pad will probably allow me to fit.
3. Research the availability of thinner pads for the glider described in #2 above. As long as I don't have to pay $2k for some custom-stitched job, I can get along.

Now parachutes are another story. Unless I have an acro bird, I do not plan to wear one. I hate them. And the thickness of a chute is likely to create insurmountable fit problems. Does anyone want to rebut these points? Or do I seem reasonable?

The roomiest cockpit by far (for modern gliders) is the DG-1000 / DG-1001 two-seater. Aerobatic with the 18 m tips, better performance of course with the 20 m tips. Even with a chute, it should be no problem at all.

DG1000 is very roomy in the back, but a bit narrow in the front!

I've sometimes contemplated throwing a bunch of ballast in the front and flying it solo from the back. But I've always managed to find a victim willing to sit in the front...

Are there many DG1000's available for less than $30,000?

You might get a quarter or fifth share or so in one, depending on how it was set up :-)

I am 6'3". The grob 103 is comfortable without a parachute. But I don't fit with my parachute. A lark is a cheap two place ship if you can find one, but after an hour or so you'll be miserable.

For single place, an ASW19 is a great fit. You will need to remove the seat, which takes about 30 seconds. Its comfortable for at least 5 1/2 hours. The asw20 cockpit is the same design, so that might be a good fit also.

I'm 6'4" 175 lb. I co-owned a Twin Lark wit a couple of big tall guys, one my height but 190 lbs and one 6'2" 200 lbs. We could all fit in both cockpits, although it was a bit snug fo flights longer than 3 hors.
Branko

On Thursday, September 8, 2016 at 6:13:40 PM UTC-5, Branko Stojkovic wrote:
I'm 6'4" 175 lb. I co-owned a Twin Lark wit a couple of big tall guys, one my height but 190 lbs and one 6'2" 200 lbs. We could all fit in both cockpits, although it was a bit snug fo flights longer than 3 hors.
Branko

You got to be kidding. A fiberglass 2-seater for under $30k? Not on this planet. All the types you mention are available - if you can find any - starting at $60-80k. They are mostly guaranteed to have bad gel coat. A reality check is in order.

While it may be splitting hairs, some sailplanes have a required equipment statement which stipulates either a parachute or a cushion of a specified thickness. Standard cirrus for instance has this requirement.

Just sayin'
Scott.

6'3", 185 lbs.

There are several threads on RAS that discussed this in some detail in the past. A few points:

1. Height matters but torso height can matter just as much. That makes stories of someone else of X height fitting into Y glider not irrelevant, but just not very definitive. The only way to find out is to try out the specific cockpit yourself.
2. Gliders of the same make and model aren't always the same. My ASW 24, for example, has at least four different cockpit arrangements. The early serial numbers (up to about 32 or 36, IIRC) are tighter. Later ASW 24s benefited from the gear being mounted differently, which opened up the cockpit. the 24B seemed to have even more room. And then there's mine, a 24 that was equipped at the factory for tall pilots, which meant it has an aftermarket instrument panel with higher knee cutouts, the rudder pedals moved forward a few cm, and no back rest, instead getting the left and right covers over the baggage areas that come with the 24E motorglider and cover the fuel tanks.. Fits me very well...with the right parachute.
3. Many gliders can be made to fit by removing the backrest (ASW 19/20, for example), putting in thinner cushions, etc. Some, like the LS-3 (which was very comfortable for me as is), have an adjustment not just for the upper backrest but also the lower mounting. Different combinations of upper and lower settings can yield significantly different fit and comfort. Again, the only way to find out is to try on the specific glider.
4. Speaking of parachutes, I appreciate not wanting to wear one. They can be uncomfortable just as some cockpits are. Mine is quite comfortable. It's also one of the few that will allow me to get into the glider: thin behind the shoulders and thick in the lumbar area. Most are the opposite or evenly thick. I don't wear one because of aerobatics. They're mandatory for contests, which is most of my flying these days. But as important, once you start spending time in crowded thermals in very close proximity with other gliders even around your local airport, you'll begin to understand why most of us wear chutes even when not required. With midair collision being the thing I fear the most because it's not completely within my control, knowing I have a chute strapped to my back is somewhat reassuring.
5. My focus has always been on cockpit length. Broader shoulders and torso can present their own challenges. The only way to find out for sure....

Chip Bearden

On Thursday, September 8, 2016 at 7:47:30 PM UTC-7, wrote:
6'3", 185 lbs.

There are several threads on RAS that discussed this in some detail in the past. A few points:

1. Height matters but torso height can matter just as much. That makes stories of someone else of X height fitting into Y glider not irrelevant, but just not very definitive. The only way to find out is to try out the specific cockpit yourself.
2. Gliders of the same make and model aren't always the same. My ASW 24, for example, has at least four different cockpit arrangements. The early serial numbers (up to about 32 or 36, IIRC) are tighter. Later ASW 24s benefited from the gear being mounted differently, which opened up the cockpit. the 24B seemed to have even more room. And then there's mine, a 24 that was equipped at the factory for tall pilots, which meant it has an aftermarket instrument panel with higher knee cutouts, the rudder pedals moved forward a few cm, and no back rest, instead getting the left and right covers over the baggage areas that come with the 24E motorglider and cover the fuel tanks. Fits me very well...with the right parachute.
3. Many gliders can be made to fit by removing the backrest (ASW 19/20, for example), putting in thinner cushions, etc. Some, like the LS-3 (which was very comfortable for me as is), have an adjustment not just for the upper backrest but also the lower mounting. Different combinations of upper and lower settings can yield significantly different fit and comfort. Again, the only way to find out is to try on the specific glider.
4. Speaking of parachutes, I appreciate not wanting to wear one. They can be uncomfortable just as some cockpits are. Mine is quite comfortable. It's also one of the few that will allow me to get into the glider: thin behind the shoulders and thick in the lumbar area. Most are the opposite or evenly thick. I don't wear one because of aerobatics. They're mandatory for contests, which is most of my flying these days. But as important, once you start spending time in crowded thermals in very close proximity with other gliders even around your local airport, you'll begin to understand why most of us wear chutes even when not required. With midair collision being the thing I fear the most because it's not completely within my control, knowing I have a chute strapped to my back is somewhat reassuring.
5. My focus has always been on cockpit length. Broader shoulders and torso can present their own challenges. The only way to find out for sure....

Chip Bearden

I have spent a lot of money on a parachute that I never expect to use for the reasons you mention. The reality, however, is that a small number of glider pilot lives have been saved by the use of their parachutes. I acknowledge that even the remote possibility of my life being saved by a chute is worth the cost (certainly in my wife's mind!). The chute is clearly a matter of last resort, after all other efforts have failed. I believe that concentrating on those other interventions is at least as important. That said, I had the closest near miss ever this summer: I missed a head-on glider (closing speed of around 260 kt TAS) with a 15 ft wing tip to wing tip clearance!

Tom

I'm not sure about the two seater Nimbus 3 & 4 gliders but the Nimbus 2 cockpit is VERY long.
I'm 6'3" 200lbs, long in the legs and even with a parachute on and my legs stretched out straight I still have to bring the rudder pedals closer. I can barely fit into a G103 with a knee wrapped around the air brake lever.
You should be able to pick up a Nimbus 2B/C (conventional elevator) in reasonable condition for $20,000 or less or a Nimbus 2 (all flying tail) possibly for $15000. I paid about $9000 for a Nimbus 2 and another $3000 to refinish the wings so $13000 isn't bad for a good condition 47:1 glider IMO.
They're not everyone's cup of tea with regards to handling but maybe it's an option.
IMO buying a two seater is only really worth it if you regularly fly with someone else. I'd rather hire a two seater when I need one.

In the single place arena you might want to consider the Centrair Pegasus. Under $30K and good performance. You'd have to check on individual ship's cockpit loads but you should be fine.

On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 09:03:56 -0700, mdfadden wrote:

In the single place arena you might want to consider the Centrair
Pegasus. Under $30K and good performance. You'd have to check on
individual ship's cockpit loads but you should be fine.

The Pegase, ASW-19 and ASW-20 all have essentially the same fuselage:
Centrair made ASW-20s under license before rolling out the Pegase.

If you're comfortable in any one of these, you'll also be comfortable in
the other two. Proof of sorts: I flew my club's Peg 90 a lot after
converting from their SZD Juniors and have also owned an ASW-20. I found
both to be equally comfortable.


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