Visual Appr.

"Steve P" wrote in message
k.net...

I think you need to let the controller know when you are in downwind.
I've been told to enter left downwind when 10 miles out.


The controller didn't call for a downwind report.

Steve P wrote in
k.net:

I think you need to let the controller know when you are
in downwind.
I've been told to enter left downwind when 10 miles out.

Yeah, well, I was assuming that, but maybe I was assuming too
much. I've also received a clearance into Class B airspace &
never talked to the tower again. HOU gets really busy
sometimes, & it can be tough to break in. Flying a helicopter &
landing to a pad, they don't give me a landing clearance anyway,
so I just came on in & landed as usual without ever talking
again.

--
Regards,

Stan

Steve P wrote in message nk.net...

I think you need to let the controller know when you are in downwind.

Really? Why?

He didn't ask for a report -- is this some mandatory report on a
visual approach that I'm clueless about?

I've been told to enter left downwind when 10 miles out.

So have I. In fact, I've been cleared to land when 10 miles
out, and the next thing I heard was 'taxi to the ramp, this
frequency' after I cleared the runway.

Cheers,
Sydney

"Stuart King" wrote in message m...
Thats what i thought too, so i went on into hase and then announced N123
left base for 9, hoping they would clear me to land (trying to be polite and
not say please clear me to land) and I got my head bit off because I was
only cleared for a downwind for 9.

At this point, I would land and call the tower to try to clarify
what happened.

Is it possible that you were instructed "report downwind" or "extend
downwind", and you missed it? If that's the case, I personally would
want to know it.

AFAIK, an instruction to "enter left downwind" is not a "clearance",
and no "clearance" is required to turn base. If the controller is
under the impression that an aircraft instructed as you were requires
a clearance to turn base and will continue downwind indefinately
without it, someone's understanding needs to be changed.

Regards,
Sydney

Steve P wrote in message ink.net...

I'm not saying "need" as in required by FAR/AIM, but I consider it good
practice to add an extra layer of safety.

How does it add an extra layer of safety to report downwind,
when you weren't asked to? (I'm not trying to be snarky, I'd
like to know how you see it)

I guess if you're flying into
an airport without any traffic it doesn't matter

Well, as you point out, one is never *sure* one is flying into
an airport without any traffic. There could always be the guy
who reported in from further out, just before you changed
frequency, or the guy in a fast jet ATC just handed over.

So as an extra element of caution, I report to ATC so I'm on their
mental radar to avoid turning base in front of a slow plane that was
cleared for landing on a long straight in that I'm not aware of. Like I
said, at an airport where there isn't any traffic it's not an issue.
When I enter downwind, I'm often number 2 if not number 4 to land.

If you're number 4 to land with aircraft waiting to take off,
the frequency may be fairly busy (and the controller perhaps working
other freqs you're not aware of or coordinating with approach).

How does it help safety for you to make additional, unrequested
radio reports? Seems to me you may well block a radio transmission
which needs to be made. I can see more than one side of the "safety"
issue. If an extra report when entering downwind is good, and
increases safety, what about reporting each leg of the pattern?

What would you do if the freq were so busy you couldn't really
get a word in edgewise while approaching downwind? Would you
proceed, or what would you do?

then there is always the guy on ground who wants to take off before you
land. If you remind ATC where are, it may allow that additional plane
to get off the ground and most pilots departing the field appreciate not
having to wait for a plane on downwind.

I don't understand this at all. If there's space for ATC to clear
the aircraft for takeoff after you remind ATC that you're on downwind,
isn't there space if you don't remind ATC where you are? Either they
see you and know perfectly well where you are, or, if they've forgotten
about you they're gonna think there's space anyway.

Cheers,
Sydney

The best way to think about it is that "cleared for the visual"
releases you from any altitude or heading/course restrictions that
were part of your previous clearance and allows you to visually enter
the pattern (in this case on a left downwind). Before the visual
clearance you were stuck at an altitude and course because of your
clearance. Remeber though that you are still IFR, a visual approach
cannot be given to a VFR aircraft. Don't forget to cancel your IFR at
some point if its not a towered field.

-Robert



"Stuart King" wrote in message . com...
The situation....

Your on an IFR plan, in VMC. You see the airport and make your call: N123
has the field.

ATC : N123 cleard for the visual approach to rwy 9, contact tower 123.4

You : cleared for the vis to 9, over tower...thanks.

You : acb tower N123 with you on the visual to 9.

Tower : N123 roger, enter a left downwind for 9.


Does this mean you stay on downwind, or are you just enetering the pattern
and can make base/final anytime.

Clearance to land has not yet been given.


SK