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  #171  
Old June 7th 07, 10:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Blueskies
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Posts: 979
Default Gasohol


"Denny" wrote in message oups.com...


Your alka seltzer fizzes in water. It all by itself does not detect alcohol...


And now for the rest of the story....

Step 1....
Got a clean urine sample cup - meaning unused...
Using a sterile syringe I added 1.5cc of denatured alcohol (S-L-X
brand) from a previously opened can, which will have an unknown % of
absorbed water vapor, to the sample cup...
Dropped in a small chunk of Alka Seltzer Original...
Faint fizzing noted - you will have to be gimlet eyed to see it - but
it does fizz... So, we can assume that "pure" alcohol ( a weak
organic acid that always contains absorbed water) will 'fizz' Alka-
Seltzer (contains bicarb of soda) if a bit faintly...

Step 2....
Added 0.4 cc of warm weak tea ( it was handy) in 0.1cc increments...
Fizzing rate essentially doubled, or a bit more, by the time I reached
the 0.4 cc value... Easy to see... This is 26% imbibed water in the
alcohol... Dunno what effect the pH of the tea had - I assume that
word that it might enhance the fizzing from the bicarb...

**** the intellectual reason for the tea besides it being in my hand
is that water condensed on a metallic surface will be weakly
acidic****

Step 3...
Dumped the liquid from the cup and added a dash of tap water...
Fizzing about tripled the rate from Step 2...


Alka-Seltzer does not fizz explosively, like Arm&Hammer bicarbonate of
soda would because it is buffered with citric acid... you will need
to google on buffering and rate of reactions to understand some of
that

Unfortunately, for scientific rigor, I do not have any so called
gasoline handy to test with... I have one minute to start seeing
patients and I suspect they will not be impressed of I reek of the
nasty crap they sell for gas these days...

denny


Thanks Denny, good post, esp. the "so called gasoline" comment...



  #172  
Old June 7th 07, 10:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Blueskies
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Posts: 979
Default Gasohol


"Dave" wrote in message oups.com...
Well, we've been down this road before, back when the Alky test first
came on the scene. Some chemist here ended up concluding that the
test was valid, but I'm always open to hearing other thoughts on the
matter.

If the danged test DIDN'T work, that could ruin my whole day...


Just to satisfy my curiosity, I did the Alka Seltzer test on a sample
of Regular Unleaded (87 Octane) - the stuff I put in my lawn mowers.
No fizz. I buy it at
the pumps of a local supermarket chain in North Carolina. Dunno where
the State stands on Gasohol, but I don't see any Alcohol Notification
Stickers there (the pumps at some other local gas stations have
stickers stating that the gas MAY contain alcohol)

David Johnson


There is no requirement for any gas station nationwide to put any notification on their pumps. Only some very few states
have tried to add the notification.

Try the 'water to the line' test when you have a chance...


  #173  
Old June 8th 07, 12:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
M[_1_]
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Posts: 207
Default Gasohol

On Jun 3, 7:31 pm, SS2MO wrote:

Currently retailers can save money by adding alcohol to the gasoline
because the alcohol is less expensive than gasoline, so they can blen
it in and sell it to you as auto gasoline - you may not know it.


I don't believe it's true anymore. At some point last year or so
wholesale price of ethonal started to exceed the wholesale price of 87
octane gasoline.

  #174  
Old June 8th 07, 02:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Dave[_5_]
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Posts: 186
Default Gasohol

On Jun 6, 11:29 pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"Dave" wrote

Just to satisfy my curiosity, I did the Alka Seltzer test on a sample
of Regular Unleaded (87 Octane) - the stuff I put in my lawn mowers.
No fizz. I buy it at
the pumps of a local supermarket chain in North Carolina. Dunno where
the State stands on Gasohol, but I don't see any Alcohol Notification
Stickers there (the pumps at some other local gas stations have
stickers stating that the gas MAY contain alcohol)


Do you live in a county that has required emissions control testing for
cars? They have the red and white stripe inspection stickers.

I ask, because it is in these counties that are required to add an
oxygenator to the gas in the summer months. That is most likely alcohol.

I don't know when the addition to the fuel begins or ends. I would have to
say right about.......NOW ! ! !

When did you purchase said tested gas?
--
Jim in NC


I am in Buncombe County, and yes - emissions testing is required for
some cars.
The gas is probably a couple months old. I have several 5 gallon cans
that I keep
full for use in my emergency generator - but rotate them as I use the
gas in my
lawnmowers, weedwacker & motorcycle. BTW - in my experience Unleaded
keeps much better than the old Leaded gas used to.

David Johnson

  #175  
Old June 9th 07, 12:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Blueskies
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Posts: 979
Default Gasohol


"David Lesher" wrote in message ...
"Peter Dohm" writes:


Given the issue with alcohol, and the fact it is injected at the
last stage - truck loading -- why aren't the STA owners such as EAA
running campaigns to set up procedures for FBO's to procure untainted
autogas?


I really doubt that the terminal operators are so ignorant as to make that a
problem.


Ha!


OTOH, there are some real problems for the FBO to overcome. One FBO owner,
who I know, stopped selling gasolene several years ago--saying that he
sometimes suspected that he lost more to evaporation than he pumped.



That's a "selling autogas" problem;
vice "finding un-Ethenol'ed autogas to sell" one.

Agreed the first may be an issue..

BUT if you have a gaggle of STA'ed aircraft owners based there and
you but not evry EatHerAndGetGas sells what they want and need....




If this special clean gas w/o alcohol is brought to the airport and kept there, doesn't it pretty much miss the point of
the autogas STC? The whole idea was to be able to use normal autogas in these old low compression engines.



  #176  
Old June 9th 07, 12:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Bob Noel
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Posts: 1,374
Default Gasohol

In article ,
"Blueskies" wrote:

If this special clean gas w/o alcohol is brought to the airport and kept
there, doesn't it pretty much miss the point of
the autogas STC? The whole idea was to be able to use normal autogas in these
old low compression engines.


I thought one objective was to avoid using the 100LL in engines that were prune
to lead fouling.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

  #177  
Old June 9th 07, 02:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
David Lesher
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Posts: 224
Default Gasohol

Bob Noel writes:


If this special clean gas w/o alcohol is brought to the airport and kept
there, doesn't it pretty much miss the point of
the autogas STC? The whole idea was to be able to use normal autogas in these
old low compression engines.


I thought one objective was to avoid using the 100LL in engines that were prune
to lead fouling.


I thought that autogas was popular for several reasons:

a) lead
b) price
.....

Gas bought by a FBO or club should be free of highway taxes but
I suspect will instead incur aviation fuel taxes...

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
  #178  
Old June 9th 07, 04:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
RST Engineering
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Posts: 1,147
Default Gasohol

And if you thought lead was bad, those prunes REALLY gum up the works.

{;-)

Jim

--
"Work like you don't need the money, love like you've never been hurt, and
dance like no one is watching."
--Satchel Paige


"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...



I thought one objective was to avoid using the 100LL in engines that were
prune
to lead fouling.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)



  #179  
Old June 9th 07, 04:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Denny
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Posts: 562
Default Gasohol



I thought one objective was to avoid using the 100LL in engines that were prune
to lead fouling.


Yeah, we are into the summer time haul the grandkids routine where I
burn oodles of avcrap because I am fueling faster than I can haul it
and I am fueling at strange airports and some are really strange...
Fat Albert's engines are already grumping at me about it...

denny

  #180  
Old June 9th 07, 04:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Bob Noel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,374
Default Gasohol

In article ,
"RST Engineering" wrote:

And if you thought lead was bad, those prunes REALLY gum up the works.


aw ... nuts. :-(

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

 




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