The Lexington ATC was NOT doing traffic count after he cleared Comair 5191 for takeoff

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...

I have been reviewing the transcript and actual tape of the Lexingon tower
during the period pertinent to the crash of Comair 5191. The tower
controller called the center for a release for each IFR departure on the
tape.


Wrong. The tower controller did not call the LEX sector at ZID for an IFR
release of any of the five aircraft on the tape. He called ZID TMU for flow
releases on SKW6819 to ORD and COM191 to ATL. TMU is Traffic Management
Unit, aka flow control.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...

I guess that was the case. The local controller was using the ASR and did
approve a heading change for weather for one aircraft but he let the
Center know about that.

It sounds confusing. A G/A pilot could show up VFR 25 miles out and call
LEX Approach for an ILS. Would the local controller ship him off to Indy
Center or would he call Indy for permission to vector the guy onto the
ILS?


He would do neither, ZID had not assumed the LEX approach airspace.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...

This is from the NTSB ATC Chairman's report about Comair 5191 and
confirmed by the transcript and ATC tape:

"At 0447 (UTC), all LEX tower and radar positions were combined and being
worked from the local control position in the tower cab. In addition to
those functons, the tower controller was responsible for obtaining
releases from the Indianapolis (ZID) Air Route Traffic Control Center
(ARTCC) Traffic Management Unit (TMU), and recording the ATIS broadcast
and all other operational and administrative duties required of a
tower/radar facility."


An IFR tower does not call for an IFR release, it may have to call for a
flow release if the aircraft is going to an applicable destination such as
ORD or ATL.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
hlink.net:


"A Lieberma" wrote in message
8...

FSS gives releases?????

I was always told FSS passes on FSS clearances and you get a ATC
clearance through FSS.


What's an FSS clearance?

FSSs relay ATC clearances to aircraft and they may very well include a
release window.

Then it's an ATC clearance. FSS do not give clearances or releases.

In fact it's required that FSS says ATC clears you, and gives you the CRAFT
which may or may not include a void time.

Allen

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...

My knowledge of how ATC operates is limited, as I am not a controller. I
am a professional pilot and work with TERPs criteria.


Based on the knowledge of flying and TERPS you've displayed in these forums
I find that very hard to believe.



Those two areas are your areas of limited knowledge.


Ya think? What do you base that on?

"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
hlink.net:


"A Lieberma" wrote in message
8...

FSS gives releases?????

I was always told FSS passes on FSS clearances and you get a ATC
clearance through FSS.


What's an FSS clearance?

FSSs relay ATC clearances to aircraft and they may very well include a
release window.

Then it's an ATC clearance. FSS do not give clearances or releases.

In fact it's required that FSS says ATC clears you, and gives you the
CRAFT
which may or may not include a void time.


FSSs gives clearances and releases to aircraft that they've obtained from
ATC.

Obtain clearance from ATC + give clearance to aircraft = relayed clearance.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
nk.net:


"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
hlink.net:


"A Lieberma" wrote in message
8...

FSS gives releases?????

I was always told FSS passes on FSS clearances and you get a ATC
clearance through FSS.


What's an FSS clearance?

FSSs relay ATC clearances to aircraft and they may very well include
a release window.

Then it's an ATC clearance. FSS do not give clearances or releases.

In fact it's required that FSS says ATC clears you, and gives you the
CRAFT
which may or may not include a void time.


FSSs gives clearances and releases to aircraft that they've obtained
from ATC.

Obtain clearance from ATC + give clearance to aircraft = relayed
clearance.

Call it whatever you want Steve.

FSS does not ISSUE clearances. They don't give CRAFT assignments. Yes,
they may relay clearances, but they don't issue them.

Please see http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/ATC/Chp4/atc0402.html 4-2-2 b where
it clearly states ATC clears.

Allen

"A Lieberma" wrote in message
8...

Call it whatever you want Steve.

FSS does not ISSUE clearances. They don't give CRAFT assignments. Yes,
they may relay clearances, but they don't issue them.


Nobody said otherwise.



Please see http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/ATC/Chp4/atc0402.html 4-2-2 b where
it clearly states ATC clears.


No need, I'm completely familiar with FSS's role.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...

I have been reviewing the transcript and actual tape of the Lexingon tower
during the period pertinent to the crash of Comair 5191. The tower
controller called the center for a release for each IFR departure on the
tape.


You performed a rather poor review. The tower controller did not call the
center for any IFR releases.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:


How is 3-1-4 pertinent in this case? Nothing in the transcript suggests the
controller failed to comply with anything you pasted above.


a. Local controllers shall visually scan runways to the maximum extent
possible.