PowerFLARM Brick and PowerFLARM Remote Display Manuals Available

On Friday, May 25, 2012 2:28:57 PM UTC-7, Mike Schumann wrote:
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On Friday, May 25, 2012 9:51:31 AM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On 5/25/12 5:03 AM, Jim wrote:
On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:47:40 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
...snip...
It is clear to everyone but you that PF does not currently support TIS-B since there is no point in supporting it now. *If* and when there will be a need to support it, it should be a software upgrade since the hardware supports it.
...snip...

Ramy, I may misunderstand ADS-B but if PF could just tell me a biz jet is about to skewer me from behind I wouldn't say "there is no point" having it in PF *NOW*. I fly near NY class B and having location of commercial jets would be more valuable than knowing where all the gliders are.

-Jim

Jim

Maybe you could describe the avionics you have on board today to address
with your concern here. Do you fly with a transponder? What model? (some
Mode S transponders may give you a path to ADS-B data-out in future). Do
you have ADS-B data-out or have you looked at what is involved in
installing that? Do you have a PowerFLARM installed yet--and how much
1090ES direct traffic are you seeing reported by the PowerFLARM? Is your
glider certified or experimental? Do you talk to ATC where you fly?

This thread has devolved into a rant about TIS-B, it is not talking
about ADS-B per-se it talking about one particular feature, and for that
a PowerFLARM or and other ADS-B data-in device won't receive any TIS-B
data unless your glider has ADS-B data-out equipment installed and
configured correctly.

Wether PowerFLARM decodes TIS-B messages is really an academic question
right now since its virtually impossible to get ADS-B data-out in a
certified glider and it not clear whether simple installs begin done in
some experimental aircraft will continue working in the future as the
FAA tightens technical standards requirements.

But more importantly than any of this, if you are flying near busy
airspace and concerned about commercial jet traffic the one thing to be
thinking of before anything else, including PowerFLARM and/or ADS-B, is
a transponder. The transponder makes you visible to ATC, tells them you
are a glider (if squawking 1202) and most importantly of all make your
glider visible to TCAS II carried by virtually all airliners and many
fast jets, military transports etc. TCAS II is the only system that
issues instructions to pilots on how to avoid a collision, overriding
ATC instructions etc. An airliner or fast jet with TCAS II has the
warning range and energy to avoid whatever you are likely to do in a
glider. A glider pilot may be left with few options, trying to play
"chicken" on an invisible freeway with a fast opponent.

And if the commercial jet you are worried about has 1090ES data-out your
PowerFLARM will see it directly today, with higher precision than TIS-B
and no need for an expensive and complex ADS-B data-out installation. By
2020, and in practice likely earlier, the airlines and many other
aircraft (anybody who flies over FL180) have to equip with 1090ES
data-out. And you will see them all. But again, its much more important
that ATC and TCAS sees you, and also possibly (depending on the exact
situation) that you also in radio communication with ATC.

Darryl

There are two reasons that TIS-B support is not an "academic question".

Its academic/irrelevant because nobody effectively can use it without the ADS-B data-out problem (esp. certified gliders requiring an STC and a certified IFR GPS) being solved. That is the definition of irrelevant...

1. TIS-B will not work without the aircraft outputting an ADS-B Out signal. There are a lot of aircraft which are already equipped with ADS-B OUT capable hardware. The only thing stopping them from turning this functionality on are some misguided FAA regulations.

No its likely a lot more complex than that. Including bandwidth concerns (even if the FAA is already screwed there in part because of UAT's data-out likely poor adoption) and it's the data-out itself that the FAA wants users to adopt--arguing they don't need to encoruage that goes against some pretty well ingrained direction at the FAA. If you know otherwise go and get AOPA and EAA and other lobbyists working on this. I doubt anybody cares what a few hundred glider pilots think.

The more TIS-B capable equipment there is deployed, the stronger the political presure that we can bring to bear on the FAA to get off the time and relax the ADS-B OUT specs for VFR use. The PowerFLARM guys could be really helpful if they supported this effort. Arguing that TIS-B is a waste of time and is useless, undermines the efforts that AOPA, MITRE, and others are making to try to get the FAA to see the light.

Political pressure? What are you smoking? The FAA has a multiple $B ADS-B and Nextgen deployment, that is problematic and has potential to blow up in their face. You think they care about what a few hundred glider pilots think? But keep waving the flag and harping ADS-B for gliders like you have been and the regulators might well take the bait and want to make that ADS-B data-out mandatory for gliders.

2. For many pilots, both glider and GA power, TIS-B provides the kind of functionality that will get people off the fence to buy equipment now, rather than wait for everyone else to equip. I suspect that if PowerFLARM included TIS-B, and the FAA relaxed the ADS-B OUT specs, not only would many glider pilots buy PowerFLARMS, but they would also buy something like a Trig 21, which would make them visible to jet aircraft TCAS systems; a win/win for everyone.

TIS-B is a protocol, not a product. How well a TIS-B based traffic display/warning system will work in a glider is an open question. We fly behind tow planes, thermal with other gliders, often fly in and out of TIS-B service coverage, etc. The display/warning system needs to handle that without distracting or confusing pilots. And this needs a lot of development work to suit our environments. You've advocated TIS-B multiple times here recently but have never responded to any request to name any display systems that uses TIS-B that would work in a glider today. And some of the current ADS-B/TIS-B display products intended for the GA applications are a joke and more cartoon displays than serious traffic awareness/collision avoidance products.

Urs, CEO of Flarm, has just said clearly that PowerFLARM might in future implement TIS-B support. That's the only choice I see for this ever being usable in gliders, assuming the data-out problem is solved. I do not see any other company ever having a market focus, business case, experience, and R&D chops to tackle this. So if the FAA is able to address the current serious road-blocks for ADS-B data-out and TIS-B (and do that enough ahead of time before FAA TIS-B support is decommissioned) then many Flarm will get to this. If not then they have not wasted a whole bunch of time and money on it. Seems the exactly right business choice for me.

You've been on r.a.s for years going on and on and on about how great ADS-B and in particular UAT technology will be. The reality is the PowerFLARM, is here today and delivers what most of us want. PowerFLARM (and transponders) are already and will continue to define the traffic awareness/collision avoidance technology landscape in the USA glider market. Flarm and its partners have tens of thousands of devices installed worldwide, they have done an incredible service to the glider community, and have amazingly been able to do this without listing to any of your advice. I suspect this current whining about PowerFLARM is because you've been so wrong hyping UAT in the past. If you don't like what Flarm is doing or don't want a PowerFLARM then go buy something else and install it. And if it works tell folks about it, and exactly what it costs and what it does. We are still waiting for _any_ word from you on what you fly with today in your glider and how to get any of this stuff you keep talking about installed in any glider.

Darryl