Cost to install IFR GPS in a basic IFR 172?

rating. Give me some guidance here group. Do I dump this kind of
money in a 1966 Cherokee 140 in slightly better than average condition
or do I invest in just a comm only to replace my fried navcom and call
it good? I've read a hundred threads in the past about this subject

Your reading of the threads has probably told you NOT to invest in IFR
avionics you aren't going to use. Someone said it recently here---you
might buy an engine for the next guy, but any avionics you buy are for
yourself. You won't recover anything near the cost of them if you sell
the plane.

If you are not going to get the rating, leave it to the next owner to
certify the plane.

Dave Butler wrote:
An IFR GPS *with a current database* is a leagal substitue for an ADF.

The requirement for a current database, if any, comes from the Approved Flight
Manual Supplement. Not all AFMSs have this requirement, but most do. You have to
read the AFMS for -that- airplane. Many UPS GX50/60 installs used boiler-plate
AFMS verbage that does not include the requirement for a current database.
Instead it requires only that the PIC determines that the procedure in the
database matches the procedure as currently published, or something like that.

True. The AFMS for my 430 installation does require a current DB and I
had forgotten that not all were that way.

My comment was more to the fact that the database has to be current for
the approach (i.e. the approach or waypoint must be in the database). As
I mentioned earlier, I'm currently visting outside of my normal database
coverage area. As I don't have the northern Michigan approaches in the
database, I can't do a GPS approach. Nor can I do any approach that
utilizes a NDB. Kinda limits my options.

Its the first time in the two years of flying behind the 430 that wish I
had kept my working ADF.





--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

Roy Smith wrote:
If you don't plan on getting an instrument rating, why spend the money
to bring the plane up to legal IFR specs? The GX-60 gives you VFR GPS,
with moving map, and a COM radio. What more do you need for VFR
operation?

The GX-60 is an IFR GPS. Also, for me, even though I don't keep myself
IFR current anymore, it's nice to know the equipment is there "just in
case". Of course, in that scenario, the most important thing is probably
my wing leveler.

--- Jay



--
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Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

Frank Stutzman wrote:
As I don't have the northern Michigan approaches in the
database, I can't do a GPS approach. Nor can I do any approach that
utilizes a NDB. Kinda limits my options.


I wouldn't mind being in N Mich right now, with or without database :-)

Dave

(PInc972390) wrote in message ...

My idea is to find a good used Apollo GX-50/GX-60 unit and replace the
ADF. No need to touch the Loran, it makes a good backup.

I have a GX 60 NO 1, Gx65 NO 2, Radar Altimeter, Annunciator, Glideslope, but
the main and most used GPS was and is a 195, 295, 196, 296 in that order of
purchace. Outside of the comm the portables have a lot more features. Look at
these closely before you buy a GX 60 or 430.

Yes, I know I could buy a 296 and a 196 for backup for what it would
cost merely to install an IFR panel GPS, let alone buy the box. But
it's not a legal replacement for ADF and DME. Neither is my M1 Loran
but it's more accurate and useful than either most of the time. FYI,
all the places I care about going have GPS Overlays of their ADF
approaches so I don't need the actual ADF.

-cwk.

C Kingsbury wrote:
(PInc972390) wrote in message ...


My idea is to find a good used Apollo GX-50/GX-60 unit and replace the
ADF. No need to touch the Loran, it makes a good backup.



I have a GX 60 NO 1, Gx65 NO 2, Radar Altimeter, Annunciator, Glideslope, but
the main and most used GPS was and is a 195, 295, 196, 296 in that order of
purchace. Outside of the comm the portables have a lot more features. Look at
these closely before you buy a GX 60 or 430.


Yes, I know I could buy a 296 and a 196 for backup for what it would
cost merely to install an IFR panel GPS, let alone buy the box. But
it's not a legal replacement for ADF and DME. Neither is my M1 Loran
but it's more accurate and useful than either most of the time. FYI,
all the places I care about going have GPS Overlays of their ADF
approaches so I don't need the actual ADF.

I musta missed something. I thought you were VFR only and not planning to get an
instrument rating. If that's the case, why do you care about legal replacement
for ADF and DME. VFR, everything's legal (well, almost). Ditto the GPS overlays.

Are you trying to make the plane IFR-capable even though you will never use the
capability, just to improve resale value?

(1) rethink whether you want an instrument rating. It's a good investment.
(2) if you still say you don't want the rating, get a panel-mount GPS so you
don't have wires strung all over and stuff clamped to the yoke.
(3) get the GPS IFR certified only if it's a really, really small cost
increment. You won't get your money back at resale.

Dave

In article , Frank Stutzman
writes:

Its the first time in the two years of flying behind the 430 that wish I
had kept my working ADF.



I think that Canada still has NDB approaches that do not have a GPS overlay and
need am ADF to legally do them.

Chuck

In article , Mike H
writes:

No, no, no.... You DON'T want to try to repair that ADF.
We went that route for close to two years in our Archer, trying to
repair the Narco ADF and Navs/Coms. We just threw good money after bad.
We probably ended up sinking $2000 over a 2 year period before finally giving
in and going for a Garmin 430 and new King Nav/Com. It cost a pretty
penny (about $12000) but sure is nice now!


I agree that you don't repair the ADF. I have the 430 installed (with a 330
transponder for TIS) in my 79Archer but a used Garmin 195 is a pretty good
inexpensive solution for VFR.

Chuck

"JJS" jschneider@REMOVE SOCKSpldi.net wrote in message ...

guy looked it up on a sheet of paper and said that Garmin is still
repairing them but there was a $400 blanket charge no matter how
trivial the problem. You sure want to make sure it's broke before you
send it in, he said.

Wonder what the charge is for a newer (out of warranty) 430? Probably
similar.

He had a used King audio panel and was going to check into a used
KX155 and glideslope for me. We're talking 4500 to $5000 to get to
IFR equipped here. I'm a vfr pilot and probably won't get my IFR
rating. Give me some guidance here group.

When my #1 Cessna RT-385 started heading South we replaced it with a
TKM radio- designed as a slide-in replacement. I wouldn't consider
buying used when there's an option to buy a good new unit at a
reasonable price. In our case the lack of install cost made a new
slide-in a cheaper fix than a used rewiring job. I feel differently
about the GPS because the new/used price delta is far larger.

IMHO you're best off with a simple replacement rather than upgrade. If
you;re not going to use it, then don't buy it. It might be one thing
if it was a Mooney or Bonanza where you'd be looking to sell it to
mostly IFR pilots somewhere down the road, but a VFR-only 140 ought to
be plenty popular.

Best,
-cwk.

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:49:11 GMT, "Dude" wrote:

I thought that an IFR GPS was a legal substitute for an ADF in ALL cases????

I don't know all of the in's and out's that apply to TSO129 certified
equipment, so my conclusions may be incorrect.

My understanding is that if you are flying IFR, and have a TSO129 box, and
require an alternate, the AIM says that:

"Any required alternate airport must have an approved instrument approach
procedure other than GPS that is anticipated to be operational and
available at the estimated time of arrival, and which the aircraft is
equipped to fly."

So if you are choosing an NDB approach at your alternate airport, you would
need to have a functioning ADF receiver on board.


--ron