VOR technigue, don't overshoot

There are a couple of techniques I've never been particularly good at while
flying, proper rudder work, and smooth turn onto a VOR radial without over
or undershooting the needle. What's a good way to smoothly know when to
start a standard rate turn onto the heading to intercept a VOR/GPS course on
the OBS?

My flying these days is with PC sims and often with an HSI. With an HSI you
have the lubber line and can keep the end of the lubber line on the needle
as it swings to get good results. What would be the non-HSI equivalent for
spam can flying?

--

Scott

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and
deserve to get it good and hard." H. L. Mencken
http://tinyurl.com/6qkhjb

tscottme wrote:
What would be the non-HSI equivalent for
spam can flying?


The CDI and DG?

On 12/05/08 13:39, tscottme wrote:
There are a couple of techniques I've never been particularly good at while
flying, proper rudder work, and smooth turn onto a VOR radial without over
or undershooting the needle. What's a good way to smoothly know when to
start a standard rate turn onto the heading to intercept a VOR/GPS course on
the OBS?

My flying these days is with PC sims and often with an HSI. With an HSI you
have the lubber line and can keep the end of the lubber line on the needle
as it swings to get good results. What would be the non-HSI equivalent for
spam can flying?


This is a great question - plus it's aviation related!

Here are some notes I took during my instrument training. I hope you find
them useful:

- Choosing an intercept angle

This was pretty easy too, once I thought about it some. There
are some rules of thumb to remember:

- when within 3 miles of the station, use 30 degree angle
- when 3 to 10 miles from the station, use 30 - 45 degrees
- when more than 10 miles from the station, use 45 - 60 degrees

To select the intercept angle, just look at the side of the OBS
where the CDI needle is deflected. Then just count from the
top of the OBS toward the needle, the number of degrees of the
desired intercept angle. Then just fly that heading.

Assume we want to track outbound on the 090 degree radial.
We dial in 090 in the top of the OBS and see that the needle
deflects to the left. Because we are 5 miles from the station,
we select an intercept angle of 40 degrees. So now we just
count to the left from our radial (090) the number of degrees
of the intercept angle (040) and that gives us our heading
to fly: 050. Fly a heading or 050 and you will intercept the
090 degree radial at 40 degrees.

Wind will affect things here.

- Deciding when to turn on to the selected radial

The further we are from the station, the longer it will take
to move the needle. Therefore, when we're close to the station
(within 3 miles) we'll need to start our turn with about 2 dots
of CDI deflection.

However, when we're more than 10 miles from the station, we'll
need to start our turn when the CDI needle is much closer, say
within the "circle".

My CFII said this will just take some practice to get a good
feeling for when to turn.

Most of this assumes you know your distance from the station.
If you don't, you'll just have to make your best guess.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Thanks Mark. Your answer was exactly what I was looking for.

--

Scott

Thanks Barry. Actually I was trying to ask what was technique without using
an HSI, not what instruments would one use if one had no HSI.

More specifically, when to start a turn toward the on-course heading?

--

Scott

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and
deserve to get it good and hard." H. L. Mencken
http://tinyurl.com/6qkhjb

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
tscottme wrote:
What would be the non-HSI equivalent for spam can flying?


The CDI and DG?

tscottme wrote:
Thanks Barry. Actually I was trying to ask what was technique without using
an HSI, not what instruments would one use if one had no HSI.

More specifically, when to start a turn toward the on-course heading?



Since you described yourself as a simmer, I wasn't sure if you knew they
existed.

Mark described it well!

tscottme writes:

There are a couple of techniques I've never been particularly good at while
flying, proper rudder work, and smooth turn onto a VOR radial without over
or undershooting the needle. What's a good way to smoothly know when to
start a standard rate turn onto the heading to intercept a VOR/GPS course on
the OBS?

My flying these days is with PC sims and often with an HSI. With an HSI you
have the lubber line and can keep the end of the lubber line on the needle
as it swings to get good results. What would be the non-HSI equivalent for
spam can flying?

It is theoretically possible to calculate the exact turn required to land
precisely on a desired radial, but this type of calculation is extremely
awkward to carry out in flight, even with a calculator.

Shortcuts can be very useful for specific situations and specific aircraft,
but they are rarely applicable or accurate outside the very specific
circumstances for which they were developed.

I think the only practical way to turn precisely is with practice in a
specific aircraft. A great deal of practice probably isn't required, just a
few hours of practicing turns. Of course, if you change to a new aircraft, or
to a new flight regime, you'll have to practice again.

Even autopilots don't necessarily turn right on the mark. It depends on how
sophisticated the autopilot is (obviously airliners can afford better ones
than small private aircraft).

Mxsmanic wrote:


Even autopilots don't necessarily turn right on the mark. It depends on how
sophisticated the autopilot is (obviously airliners can afford better ones
than small private aircraft).

The master sim pilot speaks again.

As usual you don't know ****. Some of the newer light aircraft
autopilots, like the Garmin, are better than anything the airlines had
for many years.

But, the only autopilot you know is one that was written by software
engineers at Microsoft who don't know much more about real airplanes
than you do.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...
Mxsmanic wrote:


Even autopilots don't necessarily turn right on the mark. It depends on
how
sophisticated the autopilot is (obviously airliners can afford better
ones
than small private aircraft).

The master sim pilot speaks again.

As usual you don't know ****. Some of the newer light aircraft
autopilots, like the Garmin, are better than anything the airlines had for
many years.

But, the only autopilot you know is one that was written by software
engineers at Microsoft who don't know much more about real airplanes than
you do.

The Garmin autopilot only came out recently, but you are correct in that
others have had GPSS for quite some time. Most of the sophistication takes
place in the GPS, the FMS, and/or the GPSS rather than the autopilot itself.
With the advent of RNP the airlines have come up to speed significantly, but
there are still some carriers that don't even have GPS to this day, and many
airline crews won't accept RNAV approaches even though they have been
readily available and highly used by GA for years.

As usual, Anthony doesn't have a clue past what he can learn via MSFS.

By his comment, it might actually appear that Anthony has really flown
multiple different airplanes, and has knowledge about tracking VORs and
autopilots.

Of course, he has never used an autopilot of any kind, and he has never
flown anything other than a game with a joystick.