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#1
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Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?
I'm looking for a glider for cross country in the $25k range.
I'd like to get a flapped 15 meter, and have been doing a lot of searching and reading on the groups and have kind of narrowed my decision down to an ASW20 or LS3a I have about 200 hours in gliders all glass, but never anything with flaps, however I also owned and have several hundred hours in a Mooney M20C so have good experience in complex aircraft that require good in flight planning for various aspects of flight. I was also considering the following, and will list some of my reasons for weeding them out of my choice list. Ventus B: Great performance, but my understanding from reading (no actual experience) is that they are not forgiving or maybe a better way of putting it, is they require full time attention which can be fatiguing on long flights. DG 200 or 202, good aircraft but you have to pay annual fees just to buy parts? Mini Nimbus: also good aircraft, just not up to the same performance level as an ASW20 That kind of leaves the ASW20 or LS3 in this price range and category. Unless I am missing something. So which would you have and why? I am leaning towards an ASW20 purchase, but am finding some very well equipped LS3a's in the same price range as a moderately equipped ASW20. Assuming similar clamshell style trailers and self rigging gear, which is the better buy or which would you have and why? Also, anyone knowing of an ASW20 or LS3 for sale not already on Wings and Wheels, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks, I know this topic has been brought up before, but I am in the final stages of preparing for a purchase before the 2019 season gets into full swing and would like to get some final advice before pulling the trigger on this purchase. |
#2
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Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?
As always buy the glider with the best trailer. I would not rule out the Ventus. I have flown the ASW20 and the Ventus. I found them both to be similar. I would not buy either unless they have winglets. The Ventus b had automatic hookups, where the 20a may have manual hookups, especially on the elevator.
The LS3 has heavy wings, and significantly lower performance than either the Ventus or 20, especially at higher speeds. In the 2nd generation gliders I would likely pick: 1. Ventus with winglets 2. Discus 3. ASW20 with winglets 4. LS4 5. LS3a |
#3
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Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?
The LS3 (all models) will have the requirement for the annual subscription fee for factory support. In spite of the heavy wings, I really like my LS3.
RC |
#4
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Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?
For the record, you guys all like to bash on them about their "annual fee". It is 245 Euro. Yeah, the other manufacturers aren't doing this, but I sure as heck wouldn't rule out a plane I am looking at spending upwards of 25K on because there is an extra $275 per year in expense of ownership. Heck, you might even find parts are cheaper for supporting an older LS under contract than an older Schleicher. Maybe not. But I wouldn't rule them out just because of that little bit.
YMMV, Steve Leonard LS6 serial 6037 N511M Most recent sailplane to have been flown by a US Pilot (not me!) to a World Championship. |
#5
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Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?
No bashing here. I wouldn't rule them out either.
RC |
#6
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Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?
Ok but what is the performance comparison or flying comparison between the LS3a and ASW20a?
Also, not wanting to bring up an old discussion, but how much harder to fly is the Ventus B? Is it harder or just more tiresome? Also, it was mentioned to buy with winglets. I'm not sure this group of gliders, with winglets is available in the $25k price range. If you know of one, that is decently equipped with good finish, I'd like to hear about it. I do need to target an aircraft that has a good serviceable finish, and decent electronics for X-country. Is that doable for $25k? Thanks for any suggestions or information. |
#7
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Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?
There are two payment levels for DG service, 245E and 175E. The cheaper price gets only electronic copies of manuals you print yourself.
LS3A does not have the heavy wings of the LS3 due to splitting the flaps and ailerons. |
#8
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Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?
There is a good article about LS3's by Greg Arnold he
http://soaringcafe.com/2011/01/used-...ne-review-ls3/ RC |
#9
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Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one andwhy?
....And 511M is one sweet flying machine.Â* I know this as a former owner
who added about 650 hours to her clock. On 3/31/2019 10:24 PM, Steve Leonard wrote: For the record, you guys all like to bash on them about their "annual fee". It is 245 Euro. Yeah, the other manufacturers aren't doing this, but I sure as heck wouldn't rule out a plane I am looking at spending upwards of 25K on because there is an extra $275 per year in expense of ownership. Heck, you might even find parts are cheaper for supporting an older LS under contract than an older Schleicher. Maybe not. But I wouldn't rule them out just because of that little bit. YMMV, Steve Leonard LS6 serial 6037 N511M Most recent sailplane to have been flown by a US Pilot (not me!) to a World Championship. -- Dan, 5J |
#10
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Buying LS3a or ASW20a? ~$25k cross country glider. Which one and why?
On Sunday, March 31, 2019 at 11:04:06 PM UTC-4, Michael N. wrote:
I'm looking for a glider for cross country in the $25k range. I'd like to get a flapped 15 meter, and have been doing a lot of searching and reading on the groups and have kind of narrowed my decision down to an ASW20 or LS3a I have about 200 hours in gliders all glass, but never anything with flaps, however I also owned and have several hundred hours in a Mooney M20C so have good experience in complex aircraft that require good in flight planning for various aspects of flight. I was also considering the following, and will list some of my reasons for weeding them out of my choice list. Ventus B: Great performance, but my understanding from reading (no actual experience) is that they are not forgiving or maybe a better way of putting it, is they require full time attention which can be fatiguing on long flights. DG 200 or 202, good aircraft but you have to pay annual fees just to buy parts? Mini Nimbus: also good aircraft, just not up to the same performance level as an ASW20 That kind of leaves the ASW20 or LS3 in this price range and category. Unless I am missing something. So which would you have and why? I am leaning towards an ASW20 purchase, but am finding some very well equipped LS3a's in the same price range as a moderately equipped ASW20. Assuming similar clamshell style trailers and self rigging gear, which is the better buy or which would you have and why? Also, anyone knowing of an ASW20 or LS3 for sale not already on Wings and Wheels, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks, I know this topic has been brought up before, but I am in the final stages of preparing for a purchase before the 2019 season gets into full swing and would like to get some final advice before pulling the trigger on this purchase. Don't rule out other options. Any '20 or LS-3, or Ventus in the price range you are looking at will be a clapped out ship. For similar money it would be possible to find a ship in much better condition such as an ASW-19, Std Cirrus, Pegesus, DG100 or such. Some of these ships show up having been refinished a few years ago and having a good amount of life before major expense will be needed. UH |
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