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#1
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Flight of two, IFR
I fly F-16s with the Air Force. There are essentially three methods of formation flying through IFR. The first is by maintaining fingertip formation (roughly 3 foot wingtip separation). Flight lead flies off his instruments while wingmen fly visually off him since you can usually see far enough to maintain visual inside of a cloud. This is normally done as a 2-ship. There are also specific procedures for deconflicting if you lose the visual. The second is instrument trail where you take off with some briefed time delay and every flight member calls their altitude over the intraflight frequency every 5000 feet during the climb and calls every turn. This is only done on departures and flight members are not allowed to be at the same altitude until in VMC and visual with each other. The final one is most common in fighters which is called a radar trail. This is where every flight member locks the one in front of them with their radar and deconflicts based on that.
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#2
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Flight of two, IFR
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#3
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"Dave S" wrote in message hlink.net... However.. practically.. WHO is going to be responsible for separation on a formation flight if it goes IMC? Responsibility for separation within the flight rests with the flight, whether that is practical or not. Responsibility for separation between the flight and other IFR aircraft rests with ATC. The military has procedures that address this.. i am curious to know if the US civil sector does, and I've not seen anything pertaining to it.. US ATC procedures do not distinguish between civil or military with regard to formation flights. The FARs prohibit formation flights by aircraft carrying passengers for hire. Formation flights by civil VFR aircraft are not uncommon. I issued an IFR clearance to a civil formation just once, that I can recall. It was during the EAA convention, a group of T-34s wanted to get away from OSH to practice their routine, the weather was MVFR. FAA Order 7110.65P Air Traffic Control Chapter 2. General Control Section 1. General 2-1-13. FORMATION FLIGHTS Control formation flights as a single aircraft. When individual control is requested, issue advisory information which will assist the pilots in attaining separation. When pilot reports indicate separation has been established, issue control instructions as required. NOTE- 1. Separation responsibility between aircraft within the formation during transition to individual control rests with the pilots concerned until standard separation has been attained. 2. Formation join-up and breakaway will be conducted in VFR weather conditions unless prior authorization has been obtained from ATC or individual control has been approved. Chapter 5. Radar Section 5. Radar Separation 5-5-8. ADDITIONAL SEPARATION FOR FORMATION FLIGHTS Because of the distance allowed between formation aircraft and lead aircraft, additional separation is necessary to ensure the periphery of the formation is adequately separated from other aircraft, adjacent airspace, or obstructions. Provide supplemental separation for formation flights as follows: a. Separate a standard formation flight by adding 1 mile to the appropriate radar separation minima. REFERENCE- FAAO 7110.65, Formation Flights, Para 2-1-13. FAAO 7110.65, Application, Para 5-5-1. FAAO 7110.65, Separation, Para 7-7-3. P/CG Term- Formation Flight. b. Separate two standard formation flights from each other by adding 2 miles to the appropriate separation minima. c. Separate a nonstandard formation flight by applying the appropriate separation minima to the perimeter of the airspace encompassing the nonstandard formation or from the outermost aircraft of the nonstandard formation whichever applies. d. If necessary for separation between a nonstandard formation and other aircraft, assign an appropriate beacon code to each aircraft in the formation or to the first and last aircraft in-trail. NOTE- The additional separation provided in para 5-5-8, Additional Separation for Formation Flights, is not normally added to wake turbulence separation when a formation is following a heavier aircraft since none of the formation aircraft are likely to be closer to the heavier aircraft than the lead aircraft (to which the prescribed wake turbulence separation has been applied). § 91.111 Operating near other aircraft. (a) No person may operate an aircraft so close to another aircraft as to create a collision hazard. (b) No person may operate an aircraft in formation flight except by arrangement with the pilot in command of each aircraft in the formation. (c) No person may operate an aircraft, carrying passengers for hire, in formation flight. |
#4
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"Doug" wrote in message om... Is it possible for a "flight of two" to file and fly an IFR flight plan? I took a handoff on what I though was a single RV8 headed IFR from Lexigton KY to Lawrenceville GA. My flight progress strip said "8/RV8/G" in the type box. Thinking some controller had made a bad URET data entry up in Indy Center (a typical situation since ZID doesn't use paper strips and makes flight data errors frequently), I queried the pilot on inital contact. "N123, I think we've fumbled your flight data between Centers. I'm showing you as a flight of 8 RV8's. Verify you are a single ship?" "Negative Atlanta, we're a flight of 8." "Err, OK... how far back is the tail end Charlie?" "Center, the entire flight is within 100 yards..." I just wonder what they did when they got on the tower freq at LZU for landing clearance. Any answers, swivelheads? Another day at the office or do they have to break up for a civil IFR formation arrival? Chip, ZTL |
#5
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"Chip Jones" wrote in message k.net... I just wonder what they did when they got on the tower freq at LZU for landing clearance. Any answers, swivelheads? Another day at the office or do they have to break up for a civil IFR formation arrival? There's no differentiation between civil and military with regard to formation flights. They can land as a formation or individually, the choice is theirs. |
#6
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"Chip Jones" wrote in message nk.net...
"Doug" wrote in message om... charming anecdote snipped I just wonder what they did when they got on the tower freq at LZU for landing clearance. Any answers, swivelheads? Another day at the office or do they have to break up for a civil IFR formation arrival? Chip, ZTL Chip, no doubt it was another day at the office. LZU is home for a great EAA chapter and one of the most active...if not THE most active...RV formation teams in the country. They have a very formal school and procedure to bring newbies along...err, newbies would be like me! Jim Harper RV 8A N888FP Flying off the hours! |
#7
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Chip Jones wrote: I just wonder what they did when they got on the tower freq at LZU for landing clearance. Any answers, swivelheads? Yep, cleared to land. Another day at the office or do they have to break up for a civil IFR formation arrival? Some land as a flight, some break up. |
#8
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In article t,
Chip Jones wrote: I took a handoff on what I though was a single RV8 headed IFR from Lexigton KY to Lawrenceville GA. My flight progress strip said "8/RV8/G" in the type box. Thinking some controller had made a bad URET data entry up in Indy Knowing how much RV guys like formation flying, I'd be more inclined to worry if I saw a flight strip that claimed to be a SINGLE RV going anywhere. -- Ben Jackson http://www.ben.com/ |
#9
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The military does it all the time.
Tom "Doug" wrote in message om... Is it possible for a "flight of two" to file and fly an IFR flight plan? |
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