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Brantly B2



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 11th 04, 12:40 PM
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David, you have a lot of gall to call me stupid. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO
IS STUPID AND DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. I was at that
airport and saw the thing, WERE YOU THERE?. It was so overloaded that
the pilot had to take off like an airplane. It took him several
hundred feet to drag it on its skids fast enough to get enough
translational lift to get off the ground! According to the pilot,
this was reccommended proceedure when the gas tanks were full!

For your information, the guy in that flight (which you presume to be
an expert) did get off the ground and got half way out over the lake
when he realized that something was wrong. He never got more than
about 10 feet up. Then he turned back to the airport and got all the
way back to the shore of the lake before going plop. Another 20 feet
and he would have set down on dry land undamaged.

The pilot said that he was giving it maximum throttle. If the rpm
decayed, it was due to the craft and not the pilot. The on site FAA
guy said that it was overloaded.

David, I don't know what kind of idiot you are, but before you call
someone else stupid, you'd better get your facts straight.

Dennis H.


(helopilot) wrote:

Dennis, you're stupid and obviously don't know what you're talking
about. The helicopter was not overloaded on that flight. The guy
flying it let the RRPM decay beyond recovery, as can be done with any
helicopter. The Brantly is a good, reliable helicopter that can be
operated very reasonably. It's also no more cramped than any other
2-place helicopter, and actually has more room than the R22 and
certainly more than your rediculous scorpion.



wrote in message ...
"Stu & Kathy Fields" wrote:

The power/wt and hp/wt is as good or better than the Safari. But......


the brantly is a piece of junk. I'll take my scorpion over a brantly
any day.

BTW, the hub system on a brantley is a retarded attempt at a fully
articulated hub system. It has three heavy blades with the lead-lag
hinge about half way out on the blade. Its true, I'm not joking, the
blade hinges way out in the middle about 6 feet out.

No two-passenger helicopter should have been overloaded with those two
skinny guys in there. One was trapped underwater because the cockpit
is so cramped. Fortunately, he was able to pop the windscreen out and
escape through there.

Save your money and buy something besides a brantly.

Dennis H.


Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video:
http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm


Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm


  #12  
Old May 11th 04, 02:16 PM
Davdirect
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Though never having flown a brantly, I have seen a couple in the flesh, one
hangered at the school I used to train at, and one new one at Heli-Expo. The
one thing that always concerned me was how low slung the rotor system is. When
standing next to the helicopter, I had to duck to keep my head from hitting the
blades...I can see when they are going round & round real fast as helicopters
like to do, one could literally lose your head getting into our out of one of
these things. Just an opinion.
Dave
  #13  
Old May 11th 04, 02:51 PM
Murphy's law
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(helopilot) wrote in message . com...
Dennis, you're stupid and obviously don't know what you're talking
about. The helicopter was not overloaded on that flight. The guy
flying it let the RRPM decay beyond recovery, as can be done with any
helicopter. The Brantly is a good, reliable helicopter that can be
operated very reasonably. It's also no more cramped than any other
2-place helicopter, and actually has more room than the R22 and
certainly more than your rediculous scorpion.



wrote in message ...
"Stu & Kathy Fields" wrote:

The power/wt and hp/wt is as good or better than the Safari. But......


the brantly is a piece of junk. I'll take my scorpion over a brantly
any day.

BTW, the hub system on a brantley is a retarded attempt at a fully
articulated hub system. It has three heavy blades with the lead-lag
hinge about half way out on the blade. Its true, I'm not joking, the
blade hinges way out in the middle about 6 feet out.

No two-passenger helicopter should have been overloaded with those two
skinny guys in there. One was trapped underwater because the cockpit
is so cramped. Fortunately, he was able to pop the windscreen out and
escape through there.

Save your money and buy something besides a brantly.

Dennis H.


Brantly B2 is as good as the pilot operating it
Heavy blades are better than low inertia ones
In autorotation flare after leveling off for landing the rate of rotor
decay will support the helicopter for as such as 4 seconds
No experimental homebuilt can compete with a certified one
The simple flapping & lead-lag hinges & dampers work just fine on the
outer main rotor blades
  #15  
Old May 12th 04, 12:25 AM
Steve R.
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"Murphy's law" wrote in message
m...
(Davdirect) wrote in message

...
Though never having flown a brantly, I have seen a couple in the flesh,

one
hangered at the school I used to train at, and one new one at Heli-Expo.

The
one thing that always concerned me was how low slung the rotor system

is. When
standing next to the helicopter, I had to duck to keep my head from

hitting the
blades...I can see when they are going round & round real fast as

helicopters
like to do, one could literally lose your head getting into our out of

one of
these things. Just an opinion.
Dave


This beats the common sense
Why would one walk close to & under & into a spinning rotor?
Would one jump into a dry lakebed for swimming?
One must not be jumpy
Don't lose patience & won't lose the head


Agreed! Especially in the case of something like the Brantly. I've only
seen a couple of them and like Dave, was struck (no pun intended!) by how
low the rotor was.

OTOH, as long as the pilot's sitting there with a firm hand on the cyclic
(keeping the disk level) and has eye contact with approaching / departing
ground personnel, it's not uncommon to load and unload passengers with the
rotor spinning. I'm not saying it's the safest thing in the world to do but
by my admittedly limited experience, it's pretty common.

Actually, I've heard of more people (with a bad case of rectal/cranial
inversion) sticking their heads in the tail rotor than the main rotor
although I'm sure it's been done both ways. :-o

Fly Safe,
Steve R.


  #16  
Old May 12th 04, 01:28 PM
Murphy's law
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wrote in message ...
David, you have a lot of gall to call me stupid. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO
IS STUPID AND DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. I was at that
airport and saw the thing, WERE YOU THERE?. It was so overloaded that
the pilot had to take off like an airplane. It took him several
hundred feet to drag it on its skids fast enough to get enough
translational lift to get off the ground! According to the pilot,
this was reccommended proceedure when the gas tanks were full!

For your information, the guy in that flight (which you presume to be
an expert) did get off the ground and got half way out over the lake
when he realized that something was wrong. He never got more than
about 10 feet up. Then he turned back to the airport and got all the
way back to the shore of the lake before going plop. Another 20 feet
and he would have set down on dry land undamaged.

The pilot said that he was giving it maximum throttle. If the rpm
decayed, it was due to the craft and not the pilot. The on site FAA
guy said that it was overloaded.

David, I don't know what kind of idiot you are, but before you call
someone else stupid, you'd better get your facts straight.

Dennis H.


The facts of the crash
www.brantly.info
NTSB Report-May 2003, N2141U

(helopilot) wrote:

Dennis, you're stupid and obviously don't know what you're talking
about. The helicopter was not overloaded on that flight. The guy
flying it let the RRPM decay beyond recovery, as can be done with any
helicopter. The Brantly is a good, reliable helicopter that can be
operated very reasonably. It's also no more cramped than any other
2-place helicopter, and actually has more room than the R22 and
certainly more than your rediculous scorpion.



wrote in message ...
"Stu & Kathy Fields" wrote:

The power/wt and hp/wt is as good or better than the Safari. But......

the brantly is a piece of junk. I'll take my scorpion over a brantly
any day.

BTW, the hub system on a brantley is a retarded attempt at a fully
articulated hub system. It has three heavy blades with the lead-lag
hinge about half way out on the blade. Its true, I'm not joking, the
blade hinges way out in the middle about 6 feet out.

No two-passenger helicopter should have been overloaded with those two
skinny guys in there. One was trapped underwater because the cockpit
is so cramped. Fortunately, he was able to pop the windscreen out and
escape through there.

Save your money and buy something besides a brantly.

Dennis H.


Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video:
http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm


Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

  #17  
Old May 12th 04, 05:59 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Here is the conclusion of the NTSB:

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the
probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:


The pilot/owner's failure to maintain rotor rpm which
resulted in a loss of control. Contributing factors
were high gross weight and high density altitude.


In other words, it was overloaded. Saying the pilot was at fault is
not entirely true. His only fault was in buying a Brantly in the
first place. His inability to keep RPM up was not his ignorance, but
the failure of the helicopter to generate enough power. If you stop
and think about it, all helicopters crash because they failed to
maintain RPM. Its what caused the RPM to drop is what is important.

Dennis H.


(Murphy's law) wrote:

The facts of the crash
www.brantly.info
NTSB Report-May 2003, N2141U


Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm


  #18  
Old May 12th 04, 08:28 PM
Stevenatherton
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sorry denis ive flown a brantly its got the same power as a hiller / enstrom a
model or about twice the power of a rotorway no problems at all to keep the
rotor in the green
if a rororway can fly a brantly certainly can

steve
  #19  
Old May 12th 04, 10:34 PM
Sla#s
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Default


"Steve R." wrote in message
...
SNIP Agreed! Especially in the case of something like the Brantly. I've
only
seen a couple of them and like Dave, was struck (no pun intended!) by how
low the rotor was.

OTOH, as long as the pilot's sitting there with a firm hand on the cyclic
(keeping the disk level) and has eye contact with approaching / departing
ground personnel, it's not uncommon to load and unload passengers with the
rotor spinning. I'm not saying it's the safest thing in the world to do

but
by my admittedly limited experience, it's pretty common.


I worked as an engineer with Brantlys for ten years and went in and out of
the rotor disk many times a week. Never had a problem.
The trick - as with all helicopters - is to look for the tip path.

And as for the topic - Our guys used it for pipeline patrol and it was just
as good as any turbine. That rotor system is so smooth. - First time I flew
in another type I thought it was coming apart when it went into transition!

Slatts


  #20  
Old May 13th 04, 12:03 AM
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I can't say that I have ever flown a Brantly, but here are some specs
from both Rotorway and Brantly's web site:

Helicopter Exec 162F Brantly B2B
===================== ================= ==================
Max level Speed 115 mph 100 mph
Cruise Speed 95 mph 90 mph
Rate of Climb 1000 fpm 1400 fpm
Service Ceiling 10000 feet 6000 feet
Hover IGE 7000 feet 3525 feet
Hover OGE 5000 feet n/a
Useful Load Capacity* 423 lbs 414 lbs
Fuel Burn ** 8.5 gph 13.8 gph
Max Range 180 miles 200 miles
Fuel Capacity 17 gal 31 gal (30.6 usable)

* With Full Tank of AvGas
** Calculated ((Cruise_Speed X Fuel_Capacity) / Range)

So at least according to the specs, the Exec outperforms the B2B in
everything execpt Rate of Climb and Max Range. Given the fuel burn is
nearly double in the B2B, it looks like it has to struggle to stay in
the air despite having a more powerful engine than the Exec.

Comparing to the R22: The R22 outperforms both with the exception of
max carrying load.

Dennis H.


ojunkm (Stevenatherton) wrote:

sorry denis ive flown a brantly its got the same power as a hiller / enstrom a
model or about twice the power of a rotorway no problems at all to keep the
rotor in the green
if a rororway can fly a brantly certainly can

steve


Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video:
http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm


 




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