C172 crash at Coney Island

"Guillermo" wrote in message
...
"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...
It's perplexing that an 1800-hour CFI would have a stall/spin crash on a
sightseeing flight, with or without an engine failure.

I was going to say that.
He is also CFII, MEI

If the engine failed, it's conceivable that the right-seat passenger
panicked and grabbed the control wheel or something. Without survivors or a
cockpit voice recorder, it'd be hard to know.

--Gary

Gary Drescher wrote:

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

"Gary Drescher" wrote:


Subsequent updates are emphasizing witness reports that the engine
sounded like it was sputtering,

Witnesses often say that, particularly if the airplane was spinning.


Yup. At least one witness was quoted as saying that the engine sputtered
while the plane "circled", but he could've been referring to spinning. Also,
if the plane entered a spin, the proper response would've included retarding
the throttle, which might be what the witnesses heard.

It's perplexing that an 1800-hour CFI would have a stall/spin crash on a
sightseeing flight, with or without an engine failure.

Yes, that seems odd. Makes you wonder if something else didn't happen
like a seagull strike or something like that which disabled the pilot.

Matt

That (CFI etc w paying pax) puts a completely different light on this
one. We'll have to wait for the report. THX for the clarifications

"Ben Hallert" wrote in message
oups.com...
The class B floor is 500? Sounds like a recipe for some sort of
airspace version of scud running, which in turns sounds like a great
way to have unrecoverable stalls/engine outs, controlled flight into
terrain/water.

New Orleans has that also... As long as you're over the lake at less than
whatever the floor is (500-600 ft, if I remember correctly), you don't have
to talk to ATC and possibly end up getting routed to BFE (no, I'm not
talking about Terry County Airport in Texas)... I usually flew it at around
200-300 ft... No big deal... If you can't maintain your altitude well enough
to do this, you probably shouldn't be flying anyway... Either that or just
talk to the controllers and you'll get a chance to tour BFE...

Yup!

Was a float plane, he crashed it on the highway...

Wife could not undersatnd why I was laughing...

Stupid... no wonder the public thinks that way...

Dave


aOn Sun, 22 May 2005 12:32:00 -0400, "Guillermo"
wrote:

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...
"Ernest C. Evans" wrote in message
...
I'm not a pilot but I was wondering why this plane went down "nose
first"
??? I'm thinkin', don't these things have some gliding ability ???

i guess the pilot must've been too low to recover ..... Having an
engine
quit on you is bad enough luck ..... but having it happened when you
just
happen to be at a low altitude is even worse luck ! (

Actually, having an engine quit would *not* cause a plane to fall. As you
say, it would just glide instead.

Speaking about common misconceptions, yea, unfortunately a chunk of people
seem to believe that the airplane is being held in the air by the propeller
itself.
I remember I once saw a movie (a few years ago; I thought the name was
"trapped", about a girl who gets kidnapped, but I cannot find it with that
name).
In this movie there was a scene where some people were flying in a seaplane,
and for some reason they needed to turn off the engine of the plane for a
few minutes. This was a ridiculous scene because once they shutdown the
engine the airplane just started falling off the sky. There was a shot of
the altimeter and it showed a descent of about 500 ft/SECOND!!!! (the pilot
tells the passenger that they have about 2 minutes to make a phone call, but
this means that they needed to be at about 30000 ft at that descent rate).
Then when they are done, he turns on the engine about 200 ft from the ground
and the airplane immediately goes into straight and level flight. The movie
was being pretty bad, but after that, I just started laughing, concerned
though, that it'll feed common misconceptions that people have about engine
failures in airplanes.
Has anyone seen that stupid movie or remembers the name ?

"Marco Rispoli" wrote in message
...
He was one of my instructors at Linden back when I was a student pilot.

Wow. My condolences on his death.

--Gary

"Guillermo" wrote in message
...
"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...
"nrp" wrote in message
oups.com...
I get suspicious about these - a low time pilot, no experience or
instruction with aft CG, maybe a little show-off to the many friends
on
board.

This was an 1800-hour CFI with paying customers on board.

CFII, MEI

Yes he was ... he was a good guy.

He was one of my instructors at Linden back when I was a student pilot.

I saw the name of the pilot and I still can't link him to the person.

I talked to him just saturday morning. I was there to drop my plane for a
mechanic at Linden.

I stopped by the school and I talked to him for about half an hour ...
chatting and catching up.

That same day. Saturday. Yesterday morning.

I keep thinking it's just a big mistake. It's somebody else ... not him.

I can't believe it's him. I am still hoping this is a mistake ... and I am
going to go back to the school and there he will be ...

--
Marco Rispoli - NJ, USA / PP-ASEL
My on-line aviation community - http://www.thepilotlounge.com

Guillermo wrote:
Speaking about common misconceptions, yea, unfortunately a chunk of people
seem to believe that the airplane is being held in the air by the propeller
itself.
I remember I once saw a movie (a few years ago; I thought the name was
"trapped", about a girl who gets kidnapped, but I cannot find it with that
name).
Has anyone seen that stupid movie or remembers the name ?


Yes, "Trapped" it is. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0280380/combined
Look at the user comments at the bottom of the page:

"The father (Stuart Townsend) drives an airplane (to a convention he can
drive to, no less) once, and then, right when he needs one to escape, he
finds one and flies it perfectly! If he's supposed to be a young father,
how could he have gone through all of medical school, settled down and
gotten married, AND gotten his pilot's license? "

On Sun, 22 May 2005 10:24:38 -0400, "Gary Drescher"
wrote:

"nrp" wrote in message
roups.com...
I get suspicious about these - a low time pilot, no experience or
instruction with aft CG, maybe a little show-off to the many friends on
board.

This was an 1800-hour CFI with paying customers on board.

--Gary



In my flying club we have had military trained pilots run out of fuel
and also get themselves and passenger killed in GA aircarft.
Commercially rated and citation pilots have banged up aircraft too.

I have read NTSB reports where a CFI was on board and should have
known better. One local example was stuffing too many people in a
Cadet and flying out of high density altitude airport in the
mountains.

Complacency kills too. Its always surprising to see experienced
professionals overlook basics. But it happens. No question. Anyone
human is not immune to it.

We will have to see what the NTSB says in this case.
It could be no fault of the pilot at all also.
So sad two 18 year old girls on board.

Sure they can. But then if the engine quits, you're at the limits of w&b
(four occupants, nearly full fuel, and who knows how many fat guys are on
board)), 500' AGL/MSL, in a slow turn AND THEN YOU FLY BY THE BOOK AND TRY
TO PULL BACK AND GET TO MAX GLIDE SPEED @ 69K WHEN BEACH WINDS ARE
SLOPPY-VARIABLE -- that's a killer recipe. Notice the sky pic in the NYT
article. Doesn't look like stable air to me.

From what I know of Coney Island, if the guy eating an eggplant sandwich
at Nathan's saw the whole show, it must mean the pilot was turning to set up
a landing on the Brighton Beach side of Coney Island where there was likely
more unoccupied open space.

In my opinion, you're being dumb trying to duck under the class B floor at
500' MSL along a beach with perhaps a strong on-shore wind unless you're
solo with half-tanks in a C172S.




Why? Do you think that there are many pilots out there who can't fly
straight
and level and control their altitude within 500'? IMO, anyone who can't
fly
safely in that airspace shouldn't be in the left seat.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't
got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.