Careless Linemen

Kyle Boatright wrote:
How do the rest of you deal with careless linemen? The kind who scratch
your airplane or chip the paint because they are either careless or have not
been properly trained on how to avoid damaging aircraft when refueling 'em.

By the time I grabbed those things, the lineman had already filled the left
tank, and there was a brand spankin' new paint chip near the fuel filler on
the tank.

I feel your pain. Also on some aircraft there are baffles just inside
the tank that can be damaged if a fuel nozzle is put in too far inside
the tank. I know from experiece that there can be a tendency to put the
nozzle in farther (below the top of the liquid) to prevent fuel drops
from splashing back out of the tank. The solution is to hold the nozzle
at a 45 degree angle and never put it in farther than you can see.
Because avgas damages skin and is full of poisons that get absorbed
like tetraethyl lead and benzene, I try avoid letting it touch me at all
costs.

I realize that line service isn't a high paid job but proper fueling is
a simple thing to learn and the FBO should be teaching its employees,
new and old about it. If they don't know how to fill a tank without
scratching the paint, do they know that turbocharged aircraft need the
blue juice and not Jet A? It would be worth mentioning to the
management or even filling out a comment card.

I use a club aircraft and we have our own pump so I'm used to doing it
myself. But if I am elsewhere and someone else is going to be doing it,
I always want to be there to supervise the operation and make sure
quality control is just as good

karl gruber wrote:

Actually, in Oregon, it IS against the law to fuel your own airplane. Can't
fuel your own car either.

Heh, even in New Jersey (no self service at service stations) you can
fuel your own airplane, and the marina "line man" will hand you the
nozzle to fill your boat too. Go figure.

The only exception to the self service for road vehicles that I've found
in NJ is the base gase station at McGuire.

That's why I advise supplying your own.

Bob

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:T%Odg.750186$084.532251@attbi_s22...
Tell you what I suggest for the futu Lay hands on enough rubber or
soft plastic to cover the area of the filler with a good margin around
it, and cut out a circle just a tad larger than the filler opening. Tell
the lineboy to put it in place before inserting the nozzle.

The most damage I've ever had inflicted by a lineman was due to a guy
using one of those rubber mats.

It had been "stored" in the gravel adjacent to the fuel pump, and
(unbeknownst to him) the underside had become caked with sand and small
stones. That sand- and rock-paper was ground into the paint by the weight
of the line-guy's arm and the edge of the fuel filler spout.

It seems silly to have to say it, but if your FBO uses a rubber mat make
sure they brush off the loose stuff before laying it on your wing.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

If you have bladder tank, it can have a hole punched in the
bladder when the nozzle is inserted too far. The proper
method is to have the hose over your back and the weight is
supported by the shoulder. The nozzle should not be more
than 2 inches inside the filler, but the nozzle should make
electrical contact with the tank and a ground wire should be
connected from the truck to the airplane and to the ground.
Also, a protective mat should be place around the filler to
prevent accidental damage.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
| How do the rest of you deal with careless linemen? The
kind who scratch
| your airplane or chip the paint because they are either
careless or have not
| been properly trained on how to avoid damaging aircraft
when refueling 'em.
|
| Case in point - this afternoon I stopped by the airport to
prep for a trip
| to the beach tomorrow. I grabbed a couple of maps and the
handheld gps from
| the airplane while the lineman was getting ready to fuel
the airplane. By
| the time I grabbed those things, the lineman had already
filled the left
| tank, and there was a brand spankin' new paint chip near
the fuel filler on
| the tank. How do I know it was brand new? Because I'd
just wiped off a nice
| collection of bugs from the airplane, and it wasn't
chipped then... Anyway,
| I eased over to see how he was coming with the other tank,
and he had the
| entire 10" long nozzle in the right tank and was using a
notch in the fuel
| nozzle's handle to catch the edge of the fuel filler neck
to provide a
| mechanical stop.
|
| I say "hey, let me show you something" and show him that
the sharp corner of
| the casting is resting on the fuel filler. He pulls the
nozzle out of the
| tank, and there is a noticable mark on the paint where he
was resting the
| nozzle. He said he didn't realize he was doing that. I
didn't point out
| the new chip on the other wing, which I speculate was
caused by either the
| same technique, or the other technique I've seen many
times, where the
| lineman puts the nozzle into the tank at a 45 degree
angle, and the weight
| of the nozzle rests on the painted edge of the fuel
filler.
|
| This is my home airport, and the guy was nice enough, so I
didn't make an
| issue out of it, but it is really frustrating to have
avoidable dings and
| chips on your airplane when it costs $5k or $10k to have
the thing
| repainted...
|
| BTW, self serve is not an option at my home field, which
is why I usually go
| elsewhere for fuel. That and the high prices that are
caused by having to
| pay the "fuel truck guy" to hang around the airport all
day long when there
| really isn't much fuel being sold...
|
| Also, now that I'm giving this more thought, I need to see
if the guy dented
| the bottom of my fuel tanks by sticking the nozzle so far
in there...
| Sheesh...
|
|
|
|
|

But you can always stand there an supervise, it is the PIC
duty. Let the coffee wait. If you have to ****, do it on
the ramp, but be there to talk to the line guy and see to
the cleanliness and procedures.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"karl gruber" wrote in message
...
| Actually, in Oregon, it IS against the law to fuel your
own airplane. Can't
| fuel your own car either.
|
| Karl
| "Curator" N185KG
|
|
| In one of the above cases, the guy actually said it was
against the law
| for him to let me do the fueling. I didn't argue with
him but I did say,
| "That would be incorrect but I would believe that you
have a company
| polciy against it. Is that what you are thinking of?" He
said, "Yea, Yea,
| that's what I meant. Policy. Stupid policy. After all,
it's your plane.
| Here you go. You want me to get the windshield while
your fueling?"
|
| --
| -------------------------------
| Travis
| Lake N3094P
| PWK
|
|
|

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
. ..
Martin Hotze wrote:
If I do my job I only get my rate and no extras. If I do more than
expected
then I happily accept a tip.



You should get *his* rate then. Do you work harder in your job?

You want to pay for substandard work, don't complain if you get it.
Irregardless of whether it's the FBO's decision to pay the poor slob slave
wages, it's the interaction between the lineman and your aircraft that
matters. You can stand by your principles and be a tight ass or you can be
known on the ramp as the guy who tips. Guess who'll end up getting the
better service?

Right? Wrong? It doesn't matter. That's just the way it is.

You'll have to excuse Martin. He is used to the European idea of no tips
for service people.

Sure does make for lousy service at restaurants, from what I have noticed.

It may not be right for the management to pay poor, but the tipping model
does make for much better service, believe it or not, Martin.
--
Jim in NC

On Sat, 27 May 2006 14:59:30 -0400, Morgans wrote:

You'll have to excuse Martin. He is used to the European idea of no tips
for service people.

you're wrong on this one. I am against tipping service people without good
reason.

Sure does make for lousy service at restaurants, from what I have noticed.

wrong. again.

It may not be right for the management to pay poor, but the tipping model
does make for much better service, believe it or not, Martin.

I love to tip (read: honor) for service better than expected; and I spread
the word about receiving good (better than usual) service. But I don't tip
just because I received what I paid for. For average service at
§pickyourchoice (restaurant, bar, lineguy, ...) I don't want to give
_extra_ money (read: honor his average service). And I don't want to
substitute his boss with poor wages (because the boss also expects tips to
be given).

Do you tip the blonde braindead waitress serving your plate with her finger
in your meal? just because you always tip at restaurants and because she
had a big dumb grin on her face hiding her unskilled serving 'technique'?

#m
--
Lost the phone number of a good friend? Don't know whom the kids called?
Don't worry any longer! Call 1-800-2NSA ... we are here to help you!

I always tip the waitress because they work for tips, they
draw a salary about 1/2 the minimum wage because the law
expects they will get minimum wage when the tips are
included.

I tip if they laugh at my silly jokes, if they have a nice
smile and they have a good figure. I tip more if they do a
good job, even if it is a guy or a fat girl.


"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...
| On Sat, 27 May 2006 14:59:30 -0400, Morgans wrote:
|
| You'll have to excuse Martin. He is used to the European
idea of no tips
| for service people.
|
| you're wrong on this one. I am against tipping service
people without good
| reason.
|
| Sure does make for lousy service at restaurants, from
what I have noticed.
|
| wrong. again.
|
| It may not be right for the management to pay poor, but
the tipping model
| does make for much better service, believe it or not,
Martin.
|
| I love to tip (read: honor) for service better than
expected; and I spread
| the word about receiving good (better than usual) service.
But I don't tip
| just because I received what I paid for. For average
service at
| §pickyourchoice (restaurant, bar, lineguy, ...) I don't
want to give
| _extra_ money (read: honor his average service). And I
don't want to
| substitute his boss with poor wages (because the boss also
expects tips to
| be given).
|
| Do you tip the blonde braindead waitress serving your
plate with her finger
| in your meal? just because you always tip at restaurants
and because she
| had a big dumb grin on her face hiding her unskilled
serving 'technique'?
|
| #m
| --
| Lost the phone number of a good friend? Don't know whom
the kids called?
| Don't worry any longer! Call 1-800-2NSA ... we are here to
help you!

Do you tip the blonde braindead waitress serving your plate with her
finger
in your meal? just because you always tip at restaurants and because she
had a big dumb grin on her face hiding her unskilled serving 'technique'?

Depends on if she has a nice rack!


Karl
"curator" N185KG

B A R R Y wrote:

On Sat, 27 May 2006 14:59:30 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


You'll have to excuse Martin. He is used to the European idea of no tips
for service people.



Which gets your food spit in (or worse) and allows you to wait much
longer than necessary in NYC. G

Does spitting in NYC food make it taste any different? :-)


Matt