Some good news

On 10/25/2015 2:50 PM, Ventus_a wrote:
JS;910133 Wrote:
Perhaps any male that has jumped with loose leg straps will not want to
repeat the pain. You don't need to tighten them like the glider harness,
though.
Jim

On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 8:06:09 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud
wrote:-
The instructions that came with my chute, a Butler, says not to snug
the leg straps after sitting in the cockpit, leave them snug when
standing. Any comments or experienced parachuter that can comment on
this?-

I can't comment on the pain involved with loose leg straps but a pilot
in my club who baled out of a Discus CS in the last year was struck
under the chin with the chest strap leaving quite a large contusion from
ear to ear. The chest strap ended up on his forehead leaving one to
ponder what may have been if he was knocked out or rendered insensible
by the chest strap upon the chute opening

Colin

This is probably one of those arguments that can go on forever, but somewhen I
got into soaring I read that if you could stand up straight wearing a fully
buckled emergency chute harness, it wasn't tight enough, in the sense that if
you later used it from a sitting position, you'd wish afterwards that you'd
snugged all the straps up one last time *while* you were sitting.

The one time I used an emergency (round) chute a long time ago, I can't
remember if I snugged it up in the cockpit or not, but I DO remember the
harness-matching, colorful, yellow and purple bruises on my upper torso and
shoulders, including the buckles, afterward. I concluded my harness should've
been tighter. And that was without counting to three. No major leg bruises or
talking funny afterward...

Bob W.

At 03:02 26 October 2015, BobW wrote:
This is probably one of those arguments that can go on forever, but
somewhen I
got into soaring I read that if you could stand up straight wearing a
fully
buckled emergency chute harness, it wasn't tight enough, in the sense
that
if you later used it from a sitting position, you'd wish afterwards that
you'd
snugged all the straps up one last time *while* you were sitting.


Some time ago I bought a Thomas Sports "pop top" parachute & picked it up
directly from "Lofty" Thomas (very well known in UK army and civilian
parachuting circles, over 1500 jumps) who also repeated the above advice
that if you can stand up straight the leg straps are not tight enough.

I asked his advice on jumping from a glider & remember the words even
though it was 25 years ago. He said "As soon as you are clear pull the
handle hard, dont bother with this 'one, two, three...splat' stuff. In
fact (he said) if you are having serious troubles getting out and are in a
hurry, as long as you can get your back clear and in the airsteam, just
pull the handle, the drogue will deploy and the chute will pull you out,
although you might break the odd bone in the process!. The risks of the
chute tangling in the airframe are much less than the risk of getting out
too low."

I would imagine this may depend on chute design - his have strong coil
spring that throws the drogue quite a way.

Luckily I have never had to put this advice into practice, although I still
wear a (newer) Thomas chute.

I do worry as age creeps on about how easy or difficult it would be to exit
a damaged glider, I just hope that in the event the adrenalin would give
you the necessary strength! It's always very useful to hear first hand
accounts of this so many thanks for posting experiences on here.

Am Freitag, 23. Oktober 2015 17:09:28 UTC+2 schrieb Dan Marotta:
I guess our personal limits just differ from each other.* Of course
I have experienced times when full deflection of the controls would
not stop a rolling or pitching action, but I was never concerned
about it because I kept my airspeed low enough that stall was more
likely than damage.* Knowing how to recover from unusual attitudes
and being comfortable with aerobatics may help here.

Dan, 5J

Dan, if you are spiraling with 80 kts in a rotor and one wing completely stalls, it's not about avoiding g-loads, it's about avoiding hitting the ground while you are in a fully deleveloped spin. Where I fly, rotors are very often below ridge level.
And yes, I'm fairly well trained - and current - in full aerobatics.

But fortunately, most rotors are just somewhat bumpy.

I agree with what you say. The point I was trying to make is that I
will not get into an 80 kt spiral. I will handle the aircraft well
before that can happen. All bets are off should I become immersed in
IMC, however. Though rated, my glider is not equipped for IMC. The IMC
part is unlikely where I fly due to the dryness of the air plus I have
no further desire to go above 18,000' MSL any more (too cold, don'tcha
know). I've been in rotor approaching extreme turbulence on both ends
of the tow rope at approximately 11,000' while downwind of 14,000'
peaks. It's a workout for sure. I also recall performing a near
split-S in the rotor (intentionally) to definitively notch the barograph
trace (back in the old days when cameras and barographs were the tools
of the sport). BTW, I made two glider flights and about 10 tows that
day and was the only pilot to achieve the altitude diamond.

I've seen some pretty extreme winds in the Mt. Washington area and I'll
bet you get stupendous wave. Perhaps your rotors are also more lively
than those in the Rockies. I haven't experienced the Sierra wave yet,
but it's on my list.

On 10/26/2015 3:38 AM, Tango Whisky wrote:
Am Freitag, 23. Oktober 2015 17:09:28 UTC+2 schrieb Dan Marotta:
I guess our personal limits just differ from each other. Of course
I have experienced times when full deflection of the controls would
not stop a rolling or pitching action, but I was never concerned
about it because I kept my airspeed low enough that stall was more
likely than damage. Knowing how to recover from unusual attitudes
and being comfortable with aerobatics may help here.
Dan, 5J
Dan, if you are spiraling with 80 kts in a rotor and one wing completely stalls, it's not about avoiding g-loads, it's about avoiding hitting the ground while you are in a fully deleveloped spin. Where I fly, rotors are very often below ridge level.
And yes, I'm fairly well trained - and current - in full aerobatics.

But fortunately, most rotors are just somewhat bumpy.

--
Dan, 5J

Dan,
I crouched once the canopy was already open and I was breathing cloud. The slow-motion would have looked like me standing up in my seat and jumping while pulling the cord. To get that position, I just kinda hoisted myself up and jumped.

(actually the slow-motion would have looked like a polar bear in a snowstorm on a UHF black and white TV with no signal...but that is neither here nor there)

Chris



On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 10:06:53 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Thanks, Chris.



That's exactly the kind of information I was looking for!* I'll wait
patiently for the full story when you're ready to release it.



One question:* You mentioned crouching in the cockpit immediately
prior to jumping.* I don't know how the seating is in an HP, but in
my LAK, I'm sitting too low to get into a crouch.* I've found that,
by putting my upper arms (just above the elbows) on the canopy
rails, bringing one foot way back, and bracing my back against the
seat back, I can raise my body enough that I can get the other leg
over the canopy rail.* Then I can use that leg to assist in rolling
over the side.* Note:* I'm 67 years old.



Dan

:-D

On 10/26/2015 12:27 PM, Christopher Giacomo wrote:
Dan,
I crouched once the canopy was already open and I was breathing cloud. The slow-motion would have looked like me standing up in my seat and jumping while pulling the cord. To get that position, I just kinda hoisted myself up and jumped.

(actually the slow-motion would have looked like a polar bear in a snowstorm on a UHF black and white TV with no signal...but that is neither here nor there)

Chris



On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 10:06:53 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Thanks, Chris.



That's exactly the kind of information I was looking for! I'll wait
patiently for the full story when you're ready to release it.



One question: You mentioned crouching in the cockpit immediately
prior to jumping. I don't know how the seating is in an HP, but in
my LAK, I'm sitting too low to get into a crouch. I've found that,
by putting my upper arms (just above the elbows) on the canopy
rails, bringing one foot way back, and bracing my back against the
seat back, I can raise my body enough that I can get the other leg
over the canopy rail. Then I can use that leg to assist in rolling
over the side. Note: I'm 67 years old.



Dan



--
Dan, 5J

The below is what i received from Bulter Parachute regarding tightening the leg straps after sitting in the cockpit.

Hello Jonathan,

It's always nice to hear from customers who take their emergency equipment serious enough to ask questions. It comes down to personal preference. Our Owner's Manual states: Tighten the leg straps until they are snug while standing erect... This adjustment will feel slightly looser after you sit in your aircraft; if desired, you may further tighten the leg straps after you are seated." Both methods will produce a fit that will be fine should you have to bailout. My personal preference is to snug the straps a little tighter after I am seat in the aircraft. A harness that is slightly tighter has no negative effects and will ensure that your harness is not too loose.. You will not fall out of a harness that is too loose, but one that is drastically too loose may cause the chest strap to contact the neck or chin on deployment. This can cause injury. You don't have to snug the straps to the point of discomfort or cutting off blood supply; just slightly tighter is fine and ensures your harness will be snug on deployment. Hope this helps.

Thanks for all the responses. My ship has been pulled down from the mountain (excellent helicopter work flying it by the tail), and is off to salvage through USAIG.

For all documents, photos, and my personal thoughts/evaluation, please see
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...0QtVWI1V3pVYWM

Chris

Thanks for the detailed reporting, Chris. That provides so much to
think about. If I had any criticism at all it would only be that, in
your shoes, I would have left the aircraft sooner once going into the
clouds. But then I don't have the benefit of real time knowledge of
your location, height AGL, descent rate, etc.

Overall - Good Job!

On 11/1/2015 7:57 PM, Christopher Giacomo wrote:
Thanks for all the responses. My ship has been pulled down from the mountain (excellent helicopter work flying it by the tail), and is off to salvage through USAIG.

For all documents, photos, and my personal thoughts/evaluation, please see
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...0QtVWI1V3pVYWM

Chris

--
Dan, 5J

Am Montag, 2. November 2015 03:57:31 UTC+1 schrieb Christopher Giacomo:
Thanks for all the responses. My ship has been pulled down from the mountain (excellent helicopter work flying it by the tail), and is off to salvage through USAIG.

For all documents, photos, and my personal thoughts/evaluation, please see
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...0QtVWI1V3pVYWM

Chris

Thanks for posting this. Although the event had ruined your day, there is a lot of benefit for others by learning and reflecting through your story.

Bert
Ventus cM TW