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Solo 2350D won't start



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 24th 20, 07:21 PM
Ventus_a Ventus_a is offline
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Posts: 186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike N. View Post
I am having a similar problem in my Ventus Ct. Mine will not start at all.

Is there any way to check for spark on the ground?
I pulled the plugs and hand propped while holding the plugs to the side of the engine case and could see no spark.

Is there a A&P familiar with the Solo motors in south east U.S., or better yet Florida?

Thanks for any help.
Mike
Hi Mike

Even if you were getting a spark it might not be that helpful in diagnosing the reason for not starting.

An acquaintance with a D2cT was having a similar problem. He was getting spark, testing as you did. He also had the coils bench tested as being ok but it eventually turned out they were breaking down under load so no joy. He is an experienced 2T & 4T mechanic who used to road race back in the day and he was stumped by it

New coils fixed his problem

:-/ Colin

Last edited by Ventus_a : March 24th 20 at 11:53 PM.
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  #22  
Old March 24th 20, 09:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,164
Default Solo 2350D won't start

Excellent point!

I recall my Harley cutting out on a road trip.* I reached down and
touched the coil and got a shock.* I replaced the coil and have had
another 100K trouble free miles (with more to go).

On 3/24/2020 10:00 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 6:55:06 AM UTC-4, Mike N. wrote:
I am having a similar problem in my Ventus Ct. Mine will not start at all.

Is there any way to check for spark on the ground?
I pulled the plugs and hand propped while holding the plugs to the side of the engine case and could see no spark.

Is there a A&P familiar with the Solo motors in south east U.S., or better yet Florida?

Thanks for any help.
Mike

Not expert on this contraption, however:
- coil failures are not uncommon (vibration breaks of lead at coil), and
- IIRC mechanic at Seminole is familiar with Solo sustainers
Hope that helps,
Best Regards, Dave

PS: Sounds like you already did the coil test and saw no spark, right?


--
Dan, 5J
  #23  
Old March 25th 20, 01:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike N.
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Posts: 113
Default Solo 2350D won't start

I'll call Seminole tomorrow and see if they can troubleshoot.

I am also thinking about getting the pump rebuild lots mentioned earlier in the thread.

Thanks
  #24  
Old March 29th 20, 11:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BillT
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Posts: 18
Default Solo 2350D won't start

On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 at 12:31:27 PM UTC+11, Mike N. wrote:
I'll call Seminole tomorrow and see if they can troubleshoot.

I am also thinking about getting the pump rebuild lots mentioned earlier in the thread.

Thanks


I spent a couple of hours Saturday checking suggestions from this group & others. Electrical - a friend put a megga on the spark plugs & tells they're ok. Checked ignition module secondary for continuity - both ok, checked the terminal block on the engine bay firewall for loose connections - all good.
Fuel - removed the pulse line from the diaphragm pump & connected a syringe - it pumped ok. Checked carby inlets & exhaust for blockage (mud wasp nests) - all clear. I've ordered Carby diaphragms, gaskets & metering modules from SH so it may be a few weeks before these are installed. Next problem will be getting a launch to test fly - probably no operations due Cov 19. Rgds, Bill
  #25  
Old March 30th 20, 07:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Posts: 992
Default Solo 2350D won't start

On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 3:39:05 PM UTC-7, BillT wrote:
On Sunday, March 22, 2020 at 11:08:36 AM UTC+11, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 4:32:59 PM UTC-7, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
As a long term poster on car forums.....fantastic feedback....thanks (for someone that may ask, no known neurological issues other than flying without an engine....;-))...extra dots may be likened to a pause when actually speaking to someone...

I was thinking either a collapsing fuel line, tank cap that wasn't venting, possibly a bad diaphragm (wasn't sure if float or diaphragm).

Spark plugs....not a typical issue....very low on trouble shooting list. Sounds like fuel, but short duration.

Whenever you find the issue, PLEASE post back on resolution, too many forums someone posts an issue, many possible fixes, usually never feedback on resolution.
Help the next peep that actually searches.....

Thanks.


One thing often overlooked with diaphragm carbs is the pop-off pressure of the needle valve. Incorrect pop-off pressure might account for this behavior. This pressure can usually be adjusted by either changing the spring or by bending the needle lever.

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=...10.f9GczK9WkxE

Tom


I'd never heard of the "pop off" pressure test. The 5 year inspection schedule for the original 2350 requires a pressure test of 0.4 bar (~ 6psi) allowed to decrease by 0.1 bar/min. https://aircraft.solo.global/img/cms...5_Englisch.pdf
Both of the carbys on our 2350D met this requirement indicating the needle & seat are ok. I'll report the outcome of fault finding, but it could be a few weeks. Rgds, Bill


This is the carb pop-off pressure test.
  #26  
Old March 30th 20, 05:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,164
Default Solo 2350D won't start

At only $3 or $4 each, I'd definitely change the spark plugs.

And, going back about 50 years or so when I was a radio technician in
the Air Force (before I got my EE degree), a megger or a mega-ohm meter
was, at the time, a hand cranked device used to measure very high
resistance in a circuit.* I never saw a reasonable use for one other
than charging up a very large capacitor and tossing it to a buddy,
hoping he'd catch it.

Spark plugs have an air gap, as you know, and I don't believe using a
megger is a worthwhile test to save $10 or so.* Buy new plugs.

On 3/29/2020 4:49 PM, BillT wrote:
On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 at 12:31:27 PM UTC+11, Mike N. wrote:
I'll call Seminole tomorrow and see if they can troubleshoot.

I am also thinking about getting the pump rebuild lots mentioned earlier in the thread.

Thanks

I spent a couple of hours Saturday checking suggestions from this group & others. Electrical - a friend put a megga on the spark plugs & tells they're ok. Checked ignition module secondary for continuity - both ok, checked the terminal block on the engine bay firewall for loose connections - all good.
Fuel - removed the pulse line from the diaphragm pump & connected a syringe - it pumped ok. Checked carby inlets & exhaust for blockage (mud wasp nests) - all clear. I've ordered Carby diaphragms, gaskets & metering modules from SH so it may be a few weeks before these are installed. Next problem will be getting a launch to test fly - probably no operations due Cov 19. Rgds, Bill


--
Dan, 5J
  #27  
Old March 30th 20, 08:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Posts: 1,327
Default Solo 2350D won't start

Plugs (I use NGK copper/V power) or wires/coils. A COP or extended plug wire into a well....look for carbon tracks from spark wire to ground....most noticeable at higher combustion loads (higher RPM's in NA, higher boosted in SC/turbo engines)....HV charge goes easiest path....higher combustion pressure sorta insulates spark going across plug gap....spark goes easy way....
Damp ignition can make misfires....so a damp day can make issues vs. a dry day....
Dielectric insulation of ambient air at seal level, standard pressure, is a lot lower than high compression/high load NA or "force fed"..
Physics son.....physics.....
  #28  
Old March 30th 20, 11:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
SoaringXCellence
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Posts: 371
Default Solo 2350D won't start

Just saw this on Reddit, looks like it might apply:

"Once I spent an entire weekend trouble-shooting an EX500 (twin cylinder Kawasaki) that would only run on one cylinder. The spark plugs, the float levels, the carb jets, the wiring harness, all connections, even checked the valve clearance and inspected all the valvegear.

Turns out an ant had crawled up a carb vent tube and wedged his tiny little body in just the right place in one little vent tube in one of the carbs. This mighty insect brought 600+ pounds of machine and man to a dead stop for an entire weekend. By weight, that would be like me stopping a cruise ship."
  #29  
Old March 30th 20, 11:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BillT
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Posts: 18
Default Solo 2350D won't start

On Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 9:08:25 AM UTC+11, SoaringXCellence wrote:
Just saw this on Reddit, looks like it might apply:

"Once I spent an entire weekend trouble-shooting an EX500 (twin cylinder Kawasaki) that would only run on one cylinder. The spark plugs, the float levels, the carb jets, the wiring harness, all connections, even checked the valve clearance and inspected all the valvegear.

Turns out an ant had crawled up a carb vent tube and wedged his tiny little body in just the right place in one little vent tube in one of the carbs.. This mighty insect brought 600+ pounds of machine and man to a dead stop for an entire weekend. By weight, that would be like me stopping a cruise ship."


Thanks for the suggestions. I have bought new spark plugs (NGK B7HS) & will fit them for the next test flight. We tested the existing plugs (I won't call them old - they'd only run for 15') hoping we'd find one faulty - covering all possibilities. Rgds, Bill
  #30  
Old March 31st 20, 02:13 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,164
Default Solo 2350D won't start

Charlie reminds me:* I had a new Ford pickup back in the 80s and, while
still under warranty, it started running roughly.* The dealer was unable
to find a problem until they closed the roll up door on their garage and
then, in the reduced light, they could see one of the spark plug wires
arcing to the engine block.

Maybe replacing the spark plug wires is also a good idea.

On 3/30/2020 1:36 PM, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Plugs (I use NGK copper/V power) or wires/coils. A COP or extended plug wire into a well....look for carbon tracks from spark wire to ground....most noticeable at higher combustion loads (higher RPM's in NA, higher boosted in SC/turbo engines)....HV charge goes easiest path....higher combustion pressure sorta insulates spark going across plug gap....spark goes easy way....
Damp ignition can make misfires....so a damp day can make issues vs. a dry day....
Dielectric insulation of ambient air at seal level, standard pressure, is a lot lower than high compression/high load NA or "force fed"..
Physics son.....physics.....


--
Dan, 5J
 




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