A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Trouble in Paradise (Omarama)



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old March 8th 20, 05:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,163
Default Trouble in Paradise (Omarama)

Yes, but won't it increase the cost of government through new agencies,
rules, employees, etc.?

On 3/8/2020 7:37 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2020 06:17:47 -0700, Stephen Szikora wrote:

Adventure “aviation” offers a clue to what it covers. When go-karts can
fly ... then they can be concerned.

You may have misunderstood me.

This new NZ regulatory effort seems to be aimed at reducing the cost to
the national health system of sports-related injuries of all types.

If that is its aim, then its very likely that it will affect more than
just aviation-related sports. IOW part 115 is aviation-related, but are
there other parts covering non-aviation sports and adventures?




--
Dan, 5J
Ads
  #12  
Old March 8th 20, 06:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Phil Plane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Trouble in Paradise (Omarama)

On Sunday, 8 March 2020 23:18:08 UTC+13, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Saturday, March 7, 2020 at 10:03:21 PM UTC+13, Stephen Szikora wrote:
...their operation is going to be held to a higher standard since it is considered a commercial operation rather than a gliding club. Adventure aviation is a special category of commercial operators and covers ballooning, hang gliding, parachuting and microlight commercial operations.


Any chance that Omarama instructors will be required to hold Medical Certificates, and if so, what class of Medical Certificate?


The existing license for commercial gliding requires a Class 1 medical, just like an airline pilot.

--
Philip Plane
  #13  
Old March 8th 20, 07:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Shaun Wheeler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 64
Default Trouble in Paradise (Omarama)

On Sunday, March 8, 2020 at 12:03:20 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yes, but won't it increase the cost of government through new agencies,
rules, employees, etc.?

On 3/8/2020 7:37 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2020 06:17:47 -0700, Stephen Szikora wrote:

Adventure “aviation” offers a clue to what it covers. When go-karts can
fly ... then they can be concerned.

You may have misunderstood me.

This new NZ regulatory effort seems to be aimed at reducing the cost to
the national health system of sports-related injuries of all types.

If that is its aim, then its very likely that it will affect more than
just aviation-related sports. IOW part 115 is aviation-related, but are
there other parts covering non-aviation sports and adventures?




--
Dan, 5J



The imaginary, unrealized savings that result from their regulatory actions will (in their eyes) more than offset the expenses. Just ask them.

There's all kinds of areas that they can employ somebody's brother-in-law to 'improve public safety'. Zip lines, hiking tours, kayaking, sailboats and powered boats. The sky is no longer the limit.
  #14  
Old March 8th 20, 08:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
David Hirst
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 44
Default Trouble in Paradise (Omarama)

Gliding in NZ operates under CAA Rule Part 149, in which GNZ has delegated authority to conduct its own training and maintain its own gliders, both to agreed standards. Pilot medicals are to the same standard as driver licences, and gliders can be maintained by suitable GNZ-approved engineers.

Under Part 115, instructors have to hold a CPL-G rating, which requires a Class 1 medical, as Phil has said. Part 115 organisations also have to have their gliders maintained by a CAA LAME (licenced aviation mechanical engineer, or some such). Both of these requirements impose extra costs on any Part 115 operation, costs which may in some circumstances make the business model unviable. The Part 115 rules were written some time back but only became law after a particularly bad balloon accident; Part 115 applies to ballooning, skydiving, hang gliding, paragliding and gliding.

For gliding clubs, this has meant that they can no longer offer 'joy rides' (adventure aviation) but can offer 'trial membership flights' (instructional aviation) for the purposes of recruiting club members. Part 149 gliding clubs cannot pay their instructors.

GNZ has recently petitioned CAA for a formal exemption to the Part 115 rules around medicals and maintenance, using EASA requirements as precedent. We're seeking a relaxation to Class 2 medicals and to have maintenance carry on under the same requirements as Part 149; most of the LAMEs will have little experience of maintaining gliders so will have to rely on GNZ engineers anyway. None of this helps Glide Omarama in the short term, unfortunately..

CAA are currently undergoing a major re-shuffle and part of this appears to be manifesting as a much harder line when it comes to gray areas. Some might say that they need to be seen as being active and effective regulators, but I couldn't possibly comment on this. It has also been pointed out that gliding accidents and injuries don't tend to happen on trial flights, so that the only difference between a Part 149 operation and a Part 115 operation is the extra costs and certification imposed on the latter for little apparent gain. Again, I couldn't possibly comment.

DH
  #15  
Old March 8th 20, 10:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Duster[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 198
Default Trouble in Paradise (Omarama)

There's just been a further announcement from Glide Omarama that appears to be more serious. Phil; you are close to this, is the outlook just a delay or is it more foreboding? I was there a couple weeks ago and there was still optimism things could be turned around.
Thanks

"Further to our previous post:

ALL SERVICES CANCELLED .

Unfortunately, we at Glide Omarama have experienced unexpected re-licensing issues with the Civil Aviation Authority and have decided to cease all operations from 09 March 2020 for the foreseeable future. It is unlikely we will be reopening.

We sincerely apologize to our guests for the disappointment and any inconvenience. You can expect a full refund. Please contact us as to how this can be best arranged and to answer any other questions you may have.

Gavin Wills, Managing Director"
  #16  
Old March 8th 20, 10:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 380
Default Trouble in Paradise (Omarama)

Another wonderful soaring destination and operation closed by bureaucracy. The federal idiots, in a misplaced attempt to save a buck don’t see all the money they will now loose in tax revenue, hotel/car rental, tourism etc. typical.
Dan
  #17  
Old March 8th 20, 11:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 657
Default Trouble in Paradise (Omarama)

The current trend in "progressive" politics seems to follow a particular concept, repeated ad nauseum:

"If it saves just one life, then the (regulation, law or ban) is worth it."

One person craps his pants and we all have to wear diapers. Glad to see Terry Delore got his dream flight before the bureaucrats made it impossible. Sorry to see that one of the world's premier gliding sites in possibly the most beautiful country on the planet is "circling the drain."

Are the rest of the NZ gliding clubs looking at the same fate?

  #18  
Old March 8th 20, 11:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,507
Default Trouble in Paradise (Omarama)

On Sunday, March 8, 2020 at 8:50:30 AM UTC+13, Duster wrote:
"A recent CAA study applied the social cost of accidents to the actual level of flying activity, estimating the average social cost for adventure aviation activities (both commercial and recreational) to be approximately $61.00 per person per hour of exposure (significantly above a safety target level of $13.00).

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/g...y/social-cost/

Do I have this right? That the government is trying to reduce the social cost of adventure aviation, by improving the safety record, by improving the medical-fitness-to-fly of instructors (1st Class Medical)?

I don't think that replacing the most proven and experienced pilots with younger, less proven and experienced, but more medically fit instructors, is going to reduce the likelihood of accidents, especially at Omarama. And swapping out pilots at an operation that has a clean safety record seems misguided.


  #19  
Old March 9th 20, 01:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Larry Suter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Trouble in Paradise (Omarama)

On Sunday, March 8, 2020 at 4:36:02 PM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, March 8, 2020 at 8:50:30 AM UTC+13, Duster wrote:
"A recent CAA study applied the social cost of accidents to the actual level of flying activity, estimating the average social cost for adventure aviation activities (both commercial and recreational) to be approximately $61.00 per person per hour of exposure (significantly above a safety target level of $13.00).

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/g...y/social-cost/



"Social cost" appears to assign zero value to an individual's freedom of choice. The Nanny State.

Larry
  #20  
Old March 9th 20, 03:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Phil Plane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Trouble in Paradise (Omarama)

On Monday, 9 March 2020 11:10:16 UTC+13, Duster wrote:
There's just been a further announcement from Glide Omarama that appears to be more serious. Phil; you are close to this, is the outlook just a delay or is it more foreboding? I was there a couple weeks ago and there was still optimism things could be turned around.


Gavin has changed his mind and closed the operation rather than temporarily shut down and try to get into compliance for next season. So Glide Omarama is done.

We're just doing cleanup for the next few weeks, then the doors close.

--
Phil Plane

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Way to Paradise algagaa Piloting 1 January 29th 08 09:21 AM
The Way to Paradise algagaa Piloting 0 January 29th 08 05:30 AM
OMARAMA, NZ [email protected] Soaring 2 September 23rd 05 01:08 PM
Another day in paradise F.L. Whiteley Soaring 0 February 27th 05 05:58 AM
The voice of Paradise City Gilan Home Built 1 April 1st 04 02:00 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2020 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.