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L 33 Solo Gliders



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 15th 20, 07:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
George Haeh
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Default L 33 Solo Gliders

The gotcha in buying a glider from Canada is that some state DMVs can be finicky with trailer imports - same applies to Canada with the addition of a detestable, obtuse and lethargically responsive federal agency called the Registrar of Imported Vehicles.

Many gliders in Canada were imported from the US; so, if the original US records have been preserved, your local FSDO shouldn't make any problems. Do check with them first.

Much easier, cheaper and quicker to get an imported glider flying in the US than in Canada.

With the Canadian dollar down, it's a good time to buy in Canada.
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  #22  
Old March 15th 20, 09:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom BravoMike
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Default L 33 Solo Gliders

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 10:59:17 PM UTC-5, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Thanks guys for taking the time to write back with your experiences!
The all metal thing is a big + no gelcoat issues!
So at this point the L33, Libelle, Astir and Jantar are on our short list.
Thanks again for the honest opinion's, they help a lot!
Fly safe in 2020


Interesting. I would never consider the Jantars as safe gliders for beginners, as solid as they are. IIRC, 100h flight time was required from us in my club. PW-5 yes, by all means. I have flown both.
  #23  
Old March 15th 20, 10:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 380
Default L 33 Solo Gliders

That PW5, now theres an ugly sailplane. I wish the Russia had won that competition back in the day.
  #24  
Old March 15th 20, 10:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 65
Default L 33 Solo Gliders

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 11:33:59 AM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
In the W&W Claasifieds there is a L33 Solo listed for 13K Canadian, that about 9400 USD.
I read Dick Johnsons flight report and he liked it, he was concerned that it had very little aerodynamic stall warning and would readily drop into a spin. He thought it best if low timers had real spin training before taking it out.
He also measured the performance at 31/1
For those who have owned these...
Are they easy or difficult to rig?
How have they held up?
Can you leave them tied out for the season? [ There all metal except for the rudder which is fabric]
Is the 31/ 1 LD sufficient for day in day out XC?
Are they nice to thermal?
Are they suitable for beginners with proper spin training?
Do you guys give them the overall thumbs up or thumbs down?
Thanks in advance!
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.


I had a 2 hour flight in a friend's newly imported L33 about 20 years ago. It was a very pleasant sailplane to fly. It thermalled like it was on rails. It was quite responsive. The downside was that rigging it was not fun. It always took at least 3 people to get the spar pins properly assembled. All the club experts were not able to figure out why this particular L33 was a problem to rig. So if you can leave it assembled, it would be a good ship for a good low time pilot.

Chuck Zabinski
  #25  
Old March 15th 20, 10:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Marton KSz
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Default L 33 Solo Gliders

A weak point of L-33s (aside from the abrupt stall characteristics) is the weak (spar-less) outer wings. A common faith of these gliders is digging the wingtip into the ground. Holding wings level is therefore mandatory until full stop.

An interesting quirk can be the misalignment of the airbrakes: If they extend way too much, laminar airflow can reestablish through the gap between the top of the wing surface and the bottom of the perforated airbrake plates, giving the impression that the glider actually flies slightly better with fully extended airbrakes. I observed this only on one example so far but it was noticeable; probably can be easily fixed by adjusting the airbrake stop.

Overall the L33 is a great glider, good climber and fun to fly. Perfect for local soaring. Got my silver distance in it, but could easily have flown barn doors on that day.
  #26  
Old March 15th 20, 11:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Posts: 505
Default L 33 Solo Gliders

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 15:05:48 -0700, uneekcowgirl wrote:

That PW5, now theres an ugly sailplane. I wish the Russia had won that
competition back in the day.


A certain French bull didn't thing one was ugly!

I've flown a PW-5 once off aero tow. Was OK, quite nice to fly but felt
slow and very light - a bit like a paper bag. I flew a Std Libelle after
that (my first flight in one) and much preferred it.

To put that in context, my first post-solo single-seat glider was an SZD
Junior, which I flew exclusively until I had my Silver. This was followed
by conversion to a Pegase (at Williams Soaring), followed by my club's
Pegase 90 and Discus B. I was XC rated in the Pegase, which I'd flown a
Regional in, and Discus before before flying the PW-5 and Libelle in NZ
during a visit.

I was warned in the preflight briefing for the PW-5 that they can easily
PIO on aero tow launches because too much back stick at the start will
make them pop off the ground too early and steeply. Then an instinctive
sudden push on the stick will make them hit the floor nosewheel first,
and that this is amplified by the short wheelbase converting the nosewheel
hit followed immediately by a mainwheel bounce into an even steeper pitch-
up. That said I did pick the nose up gently but fairly early and found it
easy to hold that attitude until it lifted off. After that the tow was
quite normal.

Bringing things up to date, I love my Libelle, which gets winched and
aero towed, and have no plans to sell it any time soon, but I would like
to fly a 1-26 to see how it goes. That sports canopy sounds like fun in
summer.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

  #27  
Old March 15th 20, 11:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 10
Default L 33 Solo Gliders

Interesting. I would never consider the Jantars as safe gliders for beginners, as solid as they are. IIRC, 100h flight time was required from us in my club. PW-5 yes, by all means. I have flown both.

While this thread isn't about Jantars, what, apart from it being slippery glass makes them unsuitable? I guess the forward visibility on aerotow isn't the greatest either but that's a pretty minor issue. They're pretty good back for buck.

WRT L 33, aren't those pretty much unrepairable?

(disclaimer: have Jantar Std 2, flown all the Std Jantars)
  #28  
Old March 16th 20, 12:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Posts: 505
Default L 33 Solo Gliders

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 15:32:10 -0700, Marton KSz wrote:

A weak point of L-33s (aside from the abrupt stall characteristics) is
the weak (spar-less) outer wings. A common faith of these gliders is
digging the wingtip into the ground. Holding wings level is therefore
mandatory until full stop.

An interesting quirk can be the misalignment of the airbrakes: If they
extend way too much, laminar airflow can reestablish through the gap
between the top of the wing surface and the bottom of the perforated
airbrake plates, giving the impression that the glider actually flies
slightly better with fully extended airbrakes. I observed this only on
one example so far but it was noticeable; probably can be easily fixed
by adjusting the airbrake stop.

Overall the L33 is a great glider, good climber and fun to fly. Perfect
for local soaring. Got my silver distance in it, but could easily have
flown barn doors on that day.


It would be interesting to compare with the SZD Junior as a first solo
singe seater.

BTW, thinking of rigging, we had a private Pilatus B-4 on our field
several years ago, Its owner liked it, but it was one of the harder
glider on the field to scare up a rigging crew for. This was due to two
things:

- There was an absolute prohibition on lowering the wings below rigged
dihedral because this would bend the underwing root fairings.

- mating the wing attachment lugs with the corresponding fuselage
fittings. These parts had SwissWatch-like tolerances so there was a lot
of time spent holding each wing at the right position to avoid bending
the fairing while jiggling it until the lower pins pins went in. The
upper pins were easy after that.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

  #29  
Old March 16th 20, 12:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom BravoMike
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Posts: 243
Default L 33 Solo Gliders

On Sunday, March 15, 2020 at 6:58:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Interesting. I would never consider the Jantars as safe gliders for beginners, as solid as they are. IIRC, 100h flight time was required from us in my club. PW-5 yes, by all means. I have flown both.


While this thread isn't about Jantars, what, apart from it being slippery glass makes them unsuitable? I guess the forward visibility on aerotow isn't the greatest either but that's a pretty minor issue. They're pretty good back for buck.

WRT L 33, aren't those pretty much unrepairable?

(disclaimer: have Jantar Std 2, flown all the Std Jantars)


Right, this thread is not about Jantars, but the original poster, who is asking for an opinion, wrote 'So at this point the L33, Libelle, Astir and Jantar are on our short list.' And he mentions his 14 years old son.

What makes Jantars unsuitable for beginners? They are relatively fast gliders for the age, meant for competitions at the time they were designed, and as such THEY SPIN - which is no issue for an experienced pilot but can be a disaster for a beginner. Next, the reclined position, far reach to the panel, high main wheel = limited forward visibility on the ground. With some experience, a beauty to own and to fly.
  #30  
Old March 16th 20, 12:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 12
Default L 33 Solo Gliders

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 11:33:59 AM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
In the W&W Claasifieds there is a L33 Solo listed for 13K Canadian, that about 9400 USD.
I read Dick Johnsons flight report and he liked it, he was concerned that it had very little aerodynamic stall warning and would readily drop into a spin. He thought it best if low timers had real spin training before taking it out.
He also measured the performance at 31/1
For those who have owned these...
Are they easy or difficult to rig?
How have they held up?
Can you leave them tied out for the season? [ There all metal except for the rudder which is fabric]
Is the 31/ 1 LD sufficient for day in day out XC?
Are they nice to thermal?
Are they suitable for beginners with proper spin training?
Do you guys give them the overall thumbs up or thumbs down?
Thanks in advance!
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.


 




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