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Are You Ashamed to Land Out?



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 24th 20, 08:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Are You Ashamed to Land Out?

Yes Coyne you guys have that “Combs” spirit there. I had the pleasure one time of helping him when he landed out on the back side of Mt Potosi. I was coming home from a little 4x4 exploring when I saw a libelle setting up to land on the dirt toad I was on. I quickly got off the road and he set her down right across from me. We had a great time talking about great basin soaring waiting for his crew to arrive.
Dan
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  #12  
Old March 24th 20, 09:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Default Are You Ashamed to Land Out?

Land outs are adventures in themselves!* I've landed out in numerous
plowed fields, a residential airpark, and a couple of airports. It's fun
to have a crew come and help with loading the glider on a trailer and
then enjoying a beer and dinner at some unexpected place.* I've also
been on many retrieves and had someone else provide the beer and food!

On 3/24/2020 1:28 PM, wrote:
Read the article regarding the diminishment of guys pursuing badges and a commonly held misconception that it takes greater than 30/1 to do xc, another thought came to mind. Namely, is there a stigma attached to landing out within the modern soaring community? Could this be a reason why guys are not overly enthusiastic about xc flight unless they own or have access to a high performance machine?

I think most of you regulars on here know my thoughts on the matter but I am interested in what you guys think.
Dan


--
Dan, 5J
  #13  
Old March 24th 20, 11:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
J Smiley AH
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Default Are You Ashamed to Land Out?

On Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 3:28:09 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Read the article regarding the diminishment of guys pursuing badges and a commonly held misconception that it takes greater than 30/1 to do xc, another thought came to mind. Namely, is there a stigma attached to landing out within the modern soaring community? Could this be a reason why guys are not overly enthusiastic about xc flight unless they own or have access to a high performance machine?

I think most of you regulars on here know my thoughts on the matter but I am interested in what you guys think.
Dan


At a National championship held at Elmira I landed out 6 of 9 days ( always in August)in my Libelle. I never flew another National Contest east of Weatherford Texas
  #14  
Old March 25th 20, 02:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Stephen Szikora
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Default Are You Ashamed to Land Out?

The only shame in landing out is having your retrieve crew point out that the perfect field you selected and landed in successfully was right next to a farm airstrip that you never saw!
  #15  
Old March 25th 20, 03:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
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Default Are You Ashamed to Land Out?

My first thought is "Of course people are ashamed (freightened may be a better word) to land out." ... at least the first time. It is fear of the unknown. What will people think of me? Will I break something? Will I get hurt? I think everyone has felt this at one time or another. No one LIKpES to land out.

Letting go of the wind sock is a difficult mental hurdle. Get home-i-tis sets in. Landing out is, at the very least, an inconvenience be it a metal & difficult to take apart glider or modern glass one that is easy to do.

What is the solution? Of course we don't purposely train by actually landing out in a field somewhere. The alternative is to mandate spotting with the help of CFIGs good fields from the air and making it seem "normal" to landout. Read the books available! Simulation via Condor?

This training and mental hurdle can be difficult/scary in some regions (mountains, forested, etc) as compared to here in the flat Midwest where just about everywhere is landable.


Bottom line NOTHING is as good training as the reality. And that is a leap of faith sitting alone beyond final glide and getting low.
  #16  
Old March 25th 20, 03:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Default Are You Ashamed to Land Out?

On Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 12:28:09 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Read the article regarding the diminishment of guys pursuing badges and a commonly held misconception that it takes greater than 30/1 to do xc, another thought came to mind. Namely, is there a stigma attached to landing out within the modern soaring community? Could this be a reason why guys are not overly enthusiastic about xc flight unless they own or have access to a high performance machine?

I think most of you regulars on here know my thoughts on the matter but I am interested in what you guys think.
Dan


Not embarrassed to land out. But I AM embarrassed to break my glider. And the two are statistically highly correlated. If you are flying a 1-26 over Kansas wheat fields maybe not so much, a 21M in the Great Basin is a different story.
  #17  
Old March 25th 20, 03:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce
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Default Are You Ashamed to Land Out?

On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 at 8:08:56 AM UTC-7, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
My first thought is "Of course people are ashamed (freightened may be a better word) to land out." ... at least the first time. It is fear of the unknown. What will people think of me? Will I break something? Will I get hurt? I think everyone has felt this at one time or another. No one LIKpES to land out.

Letting go of the wind sock is a difficult mental hurdle. Get home-i-tis sets in. Landing out is, at the very least, an inconvenience be it a metal & difficult to take apart glider or modern glass one that is easy to do.

What is the solution? Of course we don't purposely train by actually landing out in a field somewhere. The alternative is to mandate spotting with the help of CFIGs good fields from the air and making it seem "normal" to landout. Read the books available! Simulation via Condor?

This training and mental hurdle can be difficult/scary in some regions (mountains, forested, etc) as compared to here in the flat Midwest where just about everywhere is landable.


Bottom line NOTHING is as good training as the reality. And that is a leap of faith sitting alone beyond final glide and getting low.


In the Tucson Soaring Club, we do 2 landout training sessions each year. The first one, we do at paved airports with the airport's support. We tow and release and land at the airport, We usually have a Line Chief at the field to coordinate traffic and help get the gliders off the pavement and back on when the tow plane lands, the the student does an unassisted takeoff, is towed to the second airport where the process is repeated

For the second session, we use 2 undeveloped strips, we inspect the fields for safety, and clear brush as required. These are strips that are on our list of aerotow permitted. On these landings, the student with the supervision of the instructor gets the glider ready and hooks up. The launch is IFR (I Follow Rope), as in our environment it is always really dusty!

This goes a long way to decreasing anxiety of the first landout.
  #18  
Old March 25th 20, 04:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Are You Ashamed to Land Out?

An important feature of landing out has not been mentioned and the training discussed has not covered it.

The altimeter should be covered during any practice land out. In a lot of places it is worthless and can only give you wrong information. The pilot should understand when they can trust it and when not.

On my first landouts I also noted that after selecting the landing spot and starting whatever pattern (normal is best), I tended to want to hug the field and fly downwind or base way too close and end up long.

Bruce Patton
  #19  
Old March 25th 20, 06:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Are You Ashamed to Land Out?

Thanks for all the responses guys. While in agreement with most all that has been said, I have a slightly different take on the issue of landing out.

First off let me say that I don’t consider landing at a developed airport “landing out”. Thats just parking her at another confirmed safe place. For me, landing out is having to put her down in a field, unused undeveloped airstrip or dirt road ect.

With that being said I operate under a philosophy which when simplified is this: iOccasional out landing is essential to develop and measure my soaring skills. If I do not find myself missing my goal occasionaly, I am not really stretching and placing myself in situations where I test my skills. Now I am not talking about stretching into unlamdable terrain in the “hope” that my skills will save me. I am talking about pushing early in the day, or late in the day when conditions are weak or weakening and stretching for that extra 5 miles or flying faster than normal on a strong day, working the lift band in a more compressed selection. Or stretching to test a hunch regarding the condx in that apparent blue hole. Either of the three examples can lead to having to make a save and a higher potential for landing out.

I have found that my soaring skills do not advance and actually diminish when I find myself just cruising sedately along that well established street, doing that old routine home field triangle or out n return. But the times I have deliberately pushed or explored are the times I have learned lessons and advanced my abilities.
Dan
  #20  
Old March 25th 20, 06:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default Are You Ashamed to Land Out?

On Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 1:05:33 PM UTC-7, wrote:
If it was unintentional, I have him beat, I once landed out 3 miles from Douglas Co airport in Minden and no it wasn’t on a stretched final glide lol. It was not even in a low performance machine, now that last fact was the real “salt in the wound” lol
Dan


The only time I ever felt a 'stigma" or that I felt it would be better to spin in than land out was flying out of Mountain Valley Airport in a high performance 18 meter bird, I nearly landed at Tehachapi Municipal aIrport, all of 2.5 mile away!
 




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