Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

Who was it Gary?

On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 3:37:34 PM UTC+1, Karl Striedieck wrote:
Pilots should be thoroughly familiar with the slow speed turning behavior of their ships. Take a new ship to altitude and put it in a thermal type turn and then "abuse" the controls with skids, slips and too much back stick to see what it is going to do. Repeat this occasionally to remind you of the warning signs of incipient spins.

The Standard Cirrus wing twist (washout) was increased in 1972. Although earlier birds responded promptly to wing drop/spin they were (are) less tolerant of less-than-ideal pilotage than today's ships like the Duo Discus.

KS

I had an early Std Cirrus with the lesser washout in the early 80s and it was very prone to dropping a wing on take off and spun easily with wing drop.. Many years later a friend and I flew that same glider for a season and my friend fitted a top and bottom surface mylar aileron seal kit (from Glasfaser). Normally the top surface hinged ailerons only have top surface Tessa tape seals. I was doubtful whether it was going to be worth it but it turned out that the low speed handling was transformed for the better on take off and near the stall.

The family has been notified now. It was Andy Richenberger.

Boggs

On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 8:28:17 AM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
He was on base, made several circles and climbed a little, and then broke into a spin. The standard cirus did about 2 revolutions before it hit the ground. This was no freak atmospheric event, except that the air is more turbulent near the ground. Don’t f*#~k around down low...

Boggs

A few years ago a friend of mine, flying at a contest, spun at low altitude and died as a result of the crash. I wasn't there.
I resolved that, If I saw such low thermaling I would call the pilot and say "you are scaring me, please land and I'll buy you another tow". To date , I've bought 2 tows. Money well spent.
Maybe someone else could save a friend if they have the chance and make that call.
Sadly
UH

On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 8:14:44 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 8:28:17 AM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
He was on base, made several circles and climbed a little, and then broke into a spin. The standard cirus did about 2 revolutions before it hit the ground. This was no freak atmospheric event, except that the air is more turbulent near the ground. Don’t f*#~k around down low...

Boggs

A few years ago a friend of mine, flying at a contest, spun at low altitude and died as a result of the crash. I wasn't there.
I resolved that, If I saw such low thermaling I would call the pilot and say "you are scaring me, please land and I'll buy you another tow". To date , I've bought 2 tows. Money well spent.
Maybe someone else could save a friend if they have the chance and make that call.
Sadly
UH

That's actually a really great idea - thanks!

"To date , I've bought 2 tows. Money well spent".


It is a good idea - except I doubt that long term you could save the two jerks who took your money instead of just saying to you, "thanks for the heads up".
ROY

Yep, you can’t fix stupid.

While that may true, if you don't try to be a part of the solution, maybe you are part of the problem.
If someone ignores all the help in the world to help them, their family and friends, if you tried and failed....at least you tried.
Yes, no matter the level of help, some just seem to be destined to run for a Darwin award.

No, this is NOT a comment on the pilot or his friends in this thread.
This is a suggestion in general to maybe help someone else. I am supporting the "real UH" in this thread. Even the biggest butthead is worth at least $50 or so to save his butt.

What's the general culture out there? Do guys sit around hangar flying and bragging about their latest low saves? Could his decision to try a low save have been influenced by seeing others do so or getting lucky enough times in the past, himself? Something made him think it was a good decision to try to get a low save. If he had been successful, would the local crowd have applauded his skill and derring-do, or would they have quietly pulled him aside counseled him about it?

I believe the glorification of low saves in the pattern and other dubious behaviors adds a subconcious level of confidence that could influence a pilot's decisions. The inner voice whispers,"Those guys do it, I can, too!" Or, "I did it before and it worked, so I can do it again." I've been around a cadre of glider pilots that routinely climb away after entering the downwind and announcing their intent to land, then catching some lift and trying to dig out. Some brag about how low they released on tow, managing to climb away, and then egg each other on to get off lower. The new pilots sit and soak it all up in wonder.

It's tough to hold your ground and not try to emulate the old guard when they have so much more experience, but most of us do.

My understanding (I wasn't there) was that they were auto towing on a 3500 ft runway getting to 800 ft. I'm guessing that to be a possible factor in as much as all things are relative and 400 ft might not seemed quite as low to Andy starting from 800 ft as compared to how it might seem gliding down from the more usual aerotow start at 2000 ft. From 800 ft one has little opportunity to find lift before you must commit to landing. It's easy to see how he might have gotten a sense of accomodation to the lower altitudes and became willing to push lower on the tries.

Andy was one hell of a nice guy. He always wore a smile and was always willing to help. He was as easy going as anybody could be. Since I'm at the uptight end of the scale, I especially admired his ways. Andy will be seriously missed around here.