40,000 Plus Hits. Thank you all.

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

Check Six.

Best of luck to you there Mike. :-)))))

Thanks, Dud. I get to choose the type of A/C, right? :-)))))

As long as I don't have to fly with you......go for it!! :-))))

Perfect! Put your money where your mouth is Dud. $100...no
make that $1000 down on the table sez I can wax yer tail in
the A/C of MY choice.

$1000 bucks.

Deal, hard guy?

I don't think so Mike. I'm not really into ACM at 30 paces with ultralights
at dawn with people challenging me on Usenet. Besides, my wife and my
government would never allow it!!! :-)))
You take care and get some rest; .....I'm going to bed now, and I suggest
you do the same. Curl up with that Teddy Bear real tight now.....and
sleep.........sleep..........that's a good boy.....
shush now........quiet.............quiet.........."good night" :-))
DH

Lemme let YOU in on a little secret, Dud. Like I told ya' before the
REAL military aviators I've drank with would just as soon kick your
*phony* ass as get up in the morning.


Dudley is not a phony at all..He is the real deal, and has been on this
newsgroup for longer than I have, which is at least about 5 years or more.
Ditto for Art.


Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

Bob McKellar wrote:

[blah blah]

And now, of necessity, I must address the issue of Mr. Marron.

C'mon Bob, it's no secret that you and "Autocollimator" (e.g: Kramer)
have been in kahootz with each other from the get go.

And there's no Mr. Marron "issue" here as far as I'm concerned. Get a
life -- I'm just funnin' with y'all.

Geez. Where in the world is ol' "Autocollimator" anyway? Art???

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
news
(Peter Stickney) wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

Exactly right. Based on your online persona, you would most definitely
would NOT be on my short list of candidates to fly an IFR approach
with OR plop an ultralight down onto a helicopter landing pad (much
less fly into combat!) Stick to posting aviation stats and figures on
RAM, Pete. Everything else is beneath ya.

I don't get into Boasting Games, sport. If I were you, my posts would
be full of being conceived in a J-3 Cub,

Wrong. If I were conceived in a stinkin' J-3 Cub I damn sure wouldn't
brag about it.

Soloing at 14, learning mountain flying in some of the most unpredictable
weather in the world - you Floridians have absolutely no idea - looking
at
the Earth's curvature from 50,000', or watching the jump-up on the
Airspeed/Mach
Indicator as the shockwave formed.

Correct. We Floridians have "absolutely no idea."

Or spending 4 hours above 35,000', watching a strong Aurora Borealis
play along the entire Northern Horizon. Or the incredible greenness of
North
America after a year in the Stinking Desert. Of feeling the heavy feel,
but crisp
reponse of the De Havilland Vampire, or the instant response of the SGS
1-26,
the concnetration and precision needed to get the best out of an Mu-2.

Good grief!

Yeah, I don't fly much any more - UV at high altitude roasts your
eyes, and for some of us with the right genes, you've got screwed up
eyes for the rest of your life.

Just turned 43 years myself and (knock on wood!) still have 20/20
in both eyes....

I've managed to have some great experiences, though. I've had the
pleaser of being shot at and shooting back, of flying an airplane faster
than sound, of going to exotic places to do dangerous things, and, best
of all, holding my newborn daughter in my arms.

Wow!

But, you see, I'm not anything special, in that regard. nor have I
really done any great things. But I know folks who have, and I'm glad
to sit and listen to them any time.

Gotta' disagree. Whether you like it or not, you're damn sure
something "special," Gord.


Doncha' just love aviation?

20/20 sounds more like your intelligence quota !!

BMC

"Bob McKellar" wrote in message
...
Since my name was dropped in Art's first post in this thread, I feel
entitled to
chime in. I have waited a while to do so, reading the other posts with
great
interest.

A lot of what I was going to say has already been expressed quite well by
others.
Vlado and Dudley chimed in with the rest of the hand grenade squad ( very
entertaining! ) and others such as Gordon, Peter and the Lizard
contributed in less
incendiary ways, with at least some attempt at an evenhanded appraisal.

Those familiar with my posting history these many years know that
sometimes I stray
just a bit from a flat recitation of facts. For the purposes of this
post,
however, I am restricting myself to a very low bull**** factor. ( Very
difficult
for me!)

First, I want to state a few things in reference to a variety of things
which have
come up.

I host and code Art's web site, but ALL the content is his. I correct
typos from
the emails he sends me, but that's it. There is no money involved in any
of this
for either of us. Also, Art is not really a particularly tech savvy guy.

All my contact with Art has been email, no phone calls, no face time, no
faxes, and
just one snail mailed clipping. However, over several years, I have
encountered
absolutely NO indication that he is not who he says he is. In addition to
the
evidence available on the web site, I have encountered numerous other
pieces of
evidence verifying his identity.

----------

The "Autocollimator" story:

I spent about half an hour this afternoon on Google, and emailed another
"RAM
regular" to discuss the issue. I did NOT email Art himself.
Autocollimator is a
real word, BTW.

In my opinion, there is a very good chance that Art either IS
"Autocollimator" or
had a very direct influence in those posts. I will not detail my
reasoning here,
but it involves NO "inside" information.

I really don't think it would be such a big deal if Art wanted to have a
little
extra fun on the group, and created another persona to express some
different
views. Let's face it, "Autocollimator" is hardly the worst offender
we've seen
lately. I don't plan to spend any time worrying about it.


-------------

I don't really have anything to add to the "Good Art/Bad Art" controversy,
others
have covered it quite well. Except for this post, I don't think I have
ever
commented publicly on it, and I don't think I have any great insights.
The
tradeoffs are obvious to any reasonable long term reader of RAM.

-------------

And now, of necessity, I must address the issue of Mr. Marron. Over the
years, I
have watched many new posters earn universal derision and enmity on the
group.
However, I can't recall anybody else who reached his current depths of
disapproval
without benefit of outlandishly nonfactual statements. Mr. Marron is now
in the
losers' league of Tarver, Mladen,.and the XXX999 kooks, sinking below the
Arndt
level, without ever making a really silly claim ( by the loose standards
of RAM ).

Mr. Marron has even posted valuable material at times. However, by the
sheer force
of obnoxious personality, he has managed to irritate people even while
making what
should have been a legitimate contribution. This happens to posters all
the time,
of course ( including Art ). But Mr. Marron has raised this from an
occasional
communication problem to a consistent barrage of offensive invective,
untempered by
any real original contributions ( unless you want to count lyrical praise
of his
"almost an airplane").

I suppose I am a bit naive, a bit of a romantic with regard to communities
like
RAM. I have always felt that the raging battles we see would never happen
if we
were sitting around a table with the benefit of tone of voice and facial
expressions to leaven the harsh typing of a newsgroup post. I certainly
don't
think all opinions would coincide in such a venue. ( What would be the
fun in
that? ) But all in all, I used to say I'd be glad to have a beer with any
of the
non loon RAM regulars, regardless of how much I may disagree with them on
issues.

Now, however, I have found an exception to that rule.


Bob McKellar

This is an excellent post Bob, and some astute observation as well. I think
you have summed up basically what many of us are feeling and just didn't
have the time or the inclination to post ourselves.
For myself personally, you will notice that I didn't actually address the
issue of "Autocollimator" at all in my responses. There is a reason for
this. Like you, I see this as a non issue, and if Art has chosen a pseudonym
persona to hawk his wares; that's his business. It's the completely
unnecessary vitriolic attacks by Mr. Marron I find objectionable, and my
posting to this thread verifies that in some detail I believe. I believe
Marron's problems go much deeper than Art. That however is not my concern. I
do get concerned however when people like Vlado Lenoch are attacked in the
posting manner of Mr. Marron. Now Vlado can speak for himself I'm sure, but
I personally found Marron's remarks to Vlado so repugnant that I inserted a
reply at that point.
People like Marron will come and go on a newsgroup like this one. It's the
natural way of things on Usenet. It's an unfortunate fact that some people
either enjoy the unpleasant responses they generate on Usenet...like Tarver,
or simply bring their inner hostilities to the group. I believe this is the
case with Marron. It seems that the more actual experience his adversary
has, the more he attacks that adversary. It's like he has to constantly
prove himself to himself. God knows, I'm not a psychologist. It's not my
field of expertise. I've tried everything I can think of to bring Marron
around and change his attitude. I thought he might have something useful to
add to the group. Not many of us have much experience with ultralights.
They're the future for General Aviation at least.......but it's useless. The
more he posts, the more I'm convinced he's a genuine case of hostility and
arrested development........challenging me to an aerial dual is just one
example of this immaturity. I personally wouldn't go near an airplane with
someone like Marron.
It's a shame really. As I said, people come and they go on Usenet. You get
some bad and you get some good. That's the natural way of things on Usenet.
Hell, I've been posting here for over five years almost daily. If I dropped
dead tonight, my Usenet legacy would most likely take one of two forms.
First, and most probable of the two possible scenarios; I'd pass completely
unnoticed into Usenet oblivion, people filling in where I used to be without
a thought about what happened to me. On the other hand, perhaps somewhere
down the line, someone would innocently ask, "Where's Dudley gone?" The
thread generated (if any at all)would be a rather short mixture of those who
liked me and those who didn't, each adding their own little "tidbit" to mark
my absence; none actually knowing I was dead. Then, just like the water in a
pond rushing back in to fill the hole where the rock was thrown in, the
thread would disappear, and I'd never be mentioned again. Life goes on with
Usenet. :-)
Strange isn't it though....how many of us can get to know each other so well
over years of "talking" to each other...then just pass on quietly one day
without a trace. Usenet is kind of sad that way.
Oh well, as I said, life goes on!! :-)))
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...

I stand firmly by my assertion that Art Kramer and "Autocollimator"
are one in the same.

OK, let's see where that gets us.

Have you convinced anybody else?
Doesn't look like it.

Have you gained prestige or cost Art/Auto prestige?
Doesn't look like it. In fact it appears you may be losing
ground with repeated repetition of the claim.

Have you gained notoriety?
Well, some, of the nature a troll seeks. Are you trolling?

So, may I ask, what is the purpose of carrying this line forward?

Brian Colwell wrote:

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
news
(Peter Stickney) wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

Exactly right. Based on your online persona, you would most definitely
would NOT be on my short list of candidates to fly an IFR approach
with OR plop an ultralight down onto a helicopter landing pad (much
less fly into combat!) Stick to posting aviation stats and figures on
RAM, Pete. Everything else is beneath ya.

I don't get into Boasting Games, sport. If I were you, my posts would
be full of being conceived in a J-3 Cub,

Wrong. If I were conceived in a stinkin' J-3 Cub I damn sure wouldn't
brag about it.

Soloing at 14, learning mountain flying in some of the most unpredictable
weather in the world - you Floridians have absolutely no idea - looking
at
the Earth's curvature from 50,000', or watching the jump-up on the
Airspeed/Mach
Indicator as the shockwave formed.

Correct. We Floridians have "absolutely no idea."

Or spending 4 hours above 35,000', watching a strong Aurora Borealis
play along the entire Northern Horizon. Or the incredible greenness of
North
America after a year in the Stinking Desert. Of feeling the heavy feel,
but crisp
reponse of the De Havilland Vampire, or the instant response of the SGS
1-26,
the concnetration and precision needed to get the best out of an Mu-2.

Good grief!

Yeah, I don't fly much any more - UV at high altitude roasts your
eyes, and for some of us with the right genes, you've got screwed up
eyes for the rest of your life.

Just turned 43 years myself and (knock on wood!) still have 20/20
in both eyes....

I've managed to have some great experiences, though. I've had the
pleaser of being shot at and shooting back, of flying an airplane faster
than sound, of going to exotic places to do dangerous things, and, best
of all, holding my newborn daughter in my arms.

Wow!

But, you see, I'm not anything special, in that regard. nor have I
really done any great things. But I know folks who have, and I'm glad
to sit and listen to them any time.

Gotta' disagree. Whether you like it or not, you're damn sure
something "special," Gord.


Doncha' just love aviation?

20/20 sounds more like your intelligence quota !!

BMC

and cubed, at that.....

redc1c4,
(after being viewed through the Hubbell telescope, of course. %-)
--
A Troop - 1st Squadron
404th Lemming Armored Cavalry

"Velox et Capillatus!"

Mike Marron wrote:

Call it a gift, Gordon. Some of us are simply blessed with built-in BS
detectors and I can smell Kramer masquerading as "Autocollimator"
from a mile away. Now, I don't know you from Adam either but I do
know that Kramer has his sycophantic band of followers and supporters
around here who simply don't can't bear the thought of thier WW2
"hero" stooping so low as to post under an alias.

Who are you and why the hell do you care?

If you are going to call people cowards on RAM you might at least have the
curtesey to include your address!

-- Charlie Springer

Mike Marron wrote:

just some extensive research and development in the early stages of
energy maneuverability and fighter performance; research testing in
inertia roll coupling and departure for high performance jets;
acm and high angle of attack testing in the F14 ; you know....small stuff
like that.....stuff that keeps pilots who fly combat ALIVE in combat.........
nothing really important by YOUR standards I'm sure :-))

Am I s'posed to be impressed you pompous ****?

Do you mind if we send all these posts to your employer? Do you carry
passengers? Does you company have psych evaluations? Please tell us what
carrier you are with so we can keep clear!

-- Charlie Springer

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
Great post Liz, much appreciated! This is the one and only RATIONAL
response I've read yet, however, perhaps we should give Kramer a bit
of credit where credit's due here. In other words, simply because he
used a mechanic's saying (e.g: "keep 'em flying") doesn't mean squat.
He may have utilized the saying just to help furthur disguise himself
precisely for the reasons you so astutely pointed out (e.g: make it
seem like "Autocollimator" is some "low life yellow, uneducated
enlisted aircraft mechanic" ain't him).

Umm, Mike, as far as I know, Art has never been accused of subtlety.