Next step(s) in purchase?

Hello, R.A.O.!

I'm returning to the well, hoping to continue a trend. If you recall (or
care to research) the messages I've posted over the last year or so, you'll
find I've been getting some great advice and stimulating discussion on
selecting an airplane (my first). After considering all inputs and my own
desires & mission, I've decided to go for... the TB-20 Socata "Trinidad."

So, for the last several months, I've been electronically kicking tires of
the various examples I've seen online. I've been exercising the patience
everyone here agreed I'd need (about the only thing in wide agreement!), but
now I've seen one that I'm ready to take the next step(s) on (read:
actually spend money on travel, pre-buy, etc.). I hardly know where to
begin, so I'm hoping to continue on the goodwill of the group. (Besides, I
hear Jay is throwing a hell of a party at OSH, so I'd better hurry up & pay
the cover charge! )

Here are the things I "think" I need to do, in what I "think" is appropriate
chronological order. Process stops at any step that results in a no-go.
Comments, changes, additions, deletions--all are welcome, please!!

In progress:
1) Gather as much info about make/model as I can & refine desired
traits--ongoing
2) Find one for sale meeting desires & contact seller, get further info,
etc.--ongoing
3) Initiate financing--started today (HEL seems best, but any contrary
opinions here?)
------------------
Next:
4) Contact AOPA buyer services--"soon"; not sure what they can/can't do for
me
5) Get specific insurance quotes--"soon"; I have a general idea from
earlier quote, I just need to update them
------------------
To follow: (here's where I'm really lost)
6) Arrange for pre-buy--ASAP, but at least a week or so (?) before
traveling
7) Travel--when ready on both ends
7a) Inspect logs
7b) Pre-buy inspection
7c) Test flight--who pays for this? any specific maneuvers, etc., to
run through?
7d) Negotiate price--I have NO idea how to do this, any hints
appreciated!
8) Arrange for escrow--ASAP; can/should I do this ahead of #7??
9) Get 5 hours time-in-type dual (insurance rqmt, and not a bad idea in my
book anyway)--considering options here, hoping I can find someplace to do
this ahead of time
10) Fund escrow, close escrow, fly home!

As I say, this is my impression right now--I'm sure there's any number of
improvements that can be made. Bring 'em on!

Additional questions:
#6: Anyone w/ advice on whom to approach for the pre-buy? Airplane is in
New England region (Hartford, CT).
#9: Any advice/suggestions on where I can do this? I live in Colorado
Springs; I'm willing to travel if I must, but closer is better (read:
cheaper). Perhaps somewhere near Hartford would work well, since I may be
traveling there anyway. Note, this point really isn't tied to this specific
airplane, since it will carry to whatever plane I finally go with (unless I
change my target).

Thanks for any help!
--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

"Douglas Paterson" wrote in message
...

9) Get 5 hours time-in-type dual (insurance rqmt, and not a bad idea in my
book anyway)--considering options here, hoping I can find someplace to do
this ahead of time
10) Fund escrow, close escrow, fly home!

Rather than bothering to get the five hours in advance, just take a local CFI
with you for the trip. Yes, it costs money, but you get dual use out of the
cross-country hours, a second set of eyes for your pre-buy walkaround and
paperwork check, and backup on that unfamiliar cross country flight in an
unfamiliar aircraft.

Vaughn

"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message
...

Rather than bothering to get the five hours in advance, just take a local
CFI with you for the trip. Yes, it costs money, but you get dual use out
of the cross-country hours, a second set of eyes for your pre-buy
walkaround and paperwork check, and backup on that unfamiliar cross
country flight in an unfamiliar aircraft.



I'd considered that--and, it's still a fall-back option--but part of my
written-in-smoke plan is to build a mini-vacation around the trip home,
which would at best make it VERY expensive, but more likely wouldn't work
for someone else's schedule (let alone inclination to put up with not only
me, but my friends & family!).

On the pre-buy walkaround, paperwork, etc.: super point. Adding that to my
calculations....

--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

("Douglas Paterson" wrote)
(Besides, I hear Jay is throwing a hell of a party at OSH, so I'd better
hurry up & pay the cover charge! )


From reliable sources: Jay throws a hell of a Pre-OSH party at a certain Inn
(@ IOW).

.....of which I have yet to see one left-over brat, BTW!

In the N40 (@ OSH) Jay has been relegated to walking around with a beer in
his hand - greeting guests. We'd call him "The Greeter," but that one is
used by Wally-World.

So, Jay's N40 title is: "Host"
(Job description: beer - some sitting - much schmoozing - watch
departures - beer - fud - beer - schmooze - sit - watch departures -
schmooze - pictures - beer - sit - fud - beer - schmooze - snooze)

Jim Burns and Montblack have promoted themselves to "Assistant Hosts" for
this years N40 Party.


Montblack
"So it's ...beer, fud, sit, fud, beer...?"
"No, no, no! You forgot schmooze. Again, from the top."

"This is harder than it looks. Let's see, ...beer, fud, sit, schmooze...?"
"Better. Again."

Montblack wrote:

Jim Burns and Montblack have promoted themselves to "Assistant Hosts" for
this years N40 Party.

....and Jack is left out in the cold to fend for himself, eh? Sheesh,
one too many cracks about MontBlack and I'm yesterday's news :-)

No Mike's Lemonade for you!

Or...do I just need to self promote myself to "Assistant Host #3"?

Jay - Chief host and grand Poobah
Jim - Chief "Pointer" (points to Jay, points to beer, points to food,
etc. when asked appropriate questions)
Paul - Chief fud/beer errand boy
Jack - Chief taste tester for any and all Mike's Lemonade. Can also
substitute for Jim in the pointing department. Can also assist in
beer/fud runs.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

("Jack Allison" wrote)
Jim Burns and Montblack have promoted themselves to "Assistant Hosts" for
this years N40 Party.

Or...do I just need to self promote myself to "Assistant Host #3"?

We're sorry, but those positions are currently full. You will have to make
up your own title.

Paul - Chief fud/beer errand boy

WTF?? ...."Errand Boy"


Montblack
I'll retrieve, I do not "fetch" :-)

Montblack wrote:

("Jack Allison" wrote)

Jim Burns and Montblack have promoted themselves to "Assistant Hosts" for
this years N40 Party.

Or...do I just need to self promote myself to "Assistant Host #3"?

We're sorry, but those positions are currently full. You will have to make
up your own title.

Paul - Chief fud/beer errand boy

WTF?? ...."Errand Boy"

Montblack
I'll retrieve, I do not "fetch" :-)

I have two titles I'm rather proud of. The first, is "Head Gopher & Flunkey"
When I had a trip to the ER many years ago (fell off my bike) they asked
where I was employed and what I did.

Years later, the hospital *still* has that down on my records.

The other title is "Entertainment Director, SIGBOOZE". In the computer
industry, a SIG is a Special Interest Group. For my professional
society, there are 40-odd SIGs. Back in the 80s we created SIGBOOZE.
And yes, I have a name tag and everything (even our logo, a martini
glass)

Montblack wrote:

WTF?? ...."Errand Boy"


Montblack
I'll retrieve, I do not "fetch" :-)


Jack: "Jim, we're getting low on beer and fud"

Jim (pointing in the direction of Pic & Save): "Paul, fetch us some more
beer and fud. Oh, and don't forget the Mike's Lemonade, Jack just drank
the last one...again!"

Paul: "Woof"...gets in the airplane of minivans and drives off. Arrives
20 minutes later with more beer, fud, and Mike's Lemonade.
Jay: "It's great being the Grand Poobah...nothing to do but sit around
eating and drinking"

Hey, at least "Errand boy" was relative to fud/beer. :-)
--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Doug,
Good for you!

I would double check the insurance cost and the insurance company's
checkout requirements before going further. My insurance company
increased both between my initial informal quote and when I finally
bought my bonanza. Just unlucky timing.

When I sold my citabria I simply flew the plane to an airport convenient
to both me and the seller and had a friend pick me up there. The buyer
paid with a certified check. It was only a couple of hundred miles
away so it was an easy trip. When I bought my bonanza I paid the
seller's costs to fly the plane out to me and for his return ticket back
to Utah. You may want to explore those options. I did try to find a
local CFI to fly out with me to pick up the airplane but I couldn't find
one with enough Bo time that was available for a few days. Your
insurance company may want to know that your instructor has time in the
TB20. Talk to your insurance company about that. If something bad
happens and the insurance company determines that the CFI wasn't
qualified it could get ugly. I also tried to get a Bo check out prior
to getting the airplane but it's tough to find places that rent high
performance airplanes.

You really need an independent third party to look at the airplane,
particularly since it's complex and relatively uncommon. Before I
bought the Bo I hired an experienced mechanic recommended by the
american bonanza society to fly out and inspect the airplane. He helped
me immensely but even he missed a few items. Maybe the folks at the
Socota.org website can recommend someone that is a TB20 expert.

Make sure that the price you're paying is realistic. If it's too cheap
there's probably a bad reason for it - not always but be wary.

Get the AOPA title search done early - they can turn it around in a day
if the records are available. Unfortunately, for many different
reasons, the records may not be available. This happened to me on one
airplane I was considering so don't wait until the last minute.

I think I wrote about this when you first posted about buying - try to
find an airplane with the avionics you want already installed. The
return on avionics installations is peanuts. I was told that when I
first started shopping for a complex airplane and I found that it is true.

Lastly - don't be afraid to spend money upfront on title searches,
inspections, etc. In the long run, it's the best money you'll spend on
the airplane.

Dave
M35

Douglas Paterson wrote:
Hello, R.A.O.!

I'm returning to the well, hoping to continue a trend. If you recall (or
care to research) the messages I've posted over the last year or so, you'll
find I've been getting some great advice and stimulating discussion on
selecting an airplane (my first). After considering all inputs and my own
desires & mission, I've decided to go for... the TB-20 Socata "Trinidad."

So, for the last several months, I've been electronically kicking tires of
the various examples I've seen online. I've been exercising the patience
everyone here agreed I'd need (about the only thing in wide agreement!), but
now I've seen one that I'm ready to take the next step(s) on (read:
actually spend money on travel, pre-buy, etc.). I hardly know where to
begin, so I'm hoping to continue on the goodwill of the group. (Besides, I
hear Jay is throwing a hell of a party at OSH, so I'd better hurry up & pay
the cover charge! )

Here are the things I "think" I need to do, in what I "think" is appropriate
chronological order. Process stops at any step that results in a no-go.
Comments, changes, additions, deletions--all are welcome, please!!

"dave" wrote in message
. ..

I would double check the insurance cost and the insurance company's
checkout requirements before going further. My insurance company
increased both between my initial informal quote and when I finally bought
my bonanza. Just unlucky timing.


Excellent point. I'm sure I'm in for any number of financial "surprises"
like that, but forewarned is forearmed as they say. I will do so!

When I sold my citabria I simply flew the plane to an airport convenient
to both me and the seller and had a friend pick me up there. The buyer
paid with a certified check. It was only a couple of hundred miles away
so it was an easy trip. When I bought my bonanza I paid the seller's
costs to fly the plane out to me and for his return ticket back to Utah.
You may want to explore those options. I did try to find a local CFI to
fly out with me to pick up the airplane but I couldn't find one with
enough Bo time that was available for a few days. Your insurance company
may want to know that your instructor has time in the TB20. Talk to your
insurance company about that. If something bad happens and the insurance
company determines that the CFI wasn't qualified it could get ugly. I
also tried to get a Bo check out prior to getting the airplane but it's
tough to find places that rent high performance airplanes.

Copy all. All are valid considerations--but, at the end of the day, I've
got to say I'm really looking forward to flying MY airplane back to MY
location. You know??

I'll add the CFI rqmts question to the insurance discussion, thanks. Via
the Socata group, I've found several locations that rent Trinidads (with,
presumably, CFIs available for checkout purposes)--rather than spend the
money to get someone to join me on the trip or to fly MY plane to me, I'd
sooner pay to fly myself to one of these locations and get the hours. One
of them is in White Plains, NY, which is close to both my prospect and my
family.... We'll see.

[other good info snipped]

Thanks, Dave--precisely the sort of info I'm looking for!

--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)