Safety of winch launch vrs. aero tow?

Someone must have already compared the safety of these tow launch methods.
What do the statistics show is the safer method of launch? Aero tow seems
to involve more inherent dangers to me. For one thing, there is just more
time for things to go wrong. What could be more dangerous than to tie tow
airplanes together and try to fly?

Gary Boggs

Hi

Having both winched and aerotowed several times!!! I find an aerotow less
demanding, everything happens very quickly on a winch wire.

Peter S
DLA


"Gary Boggs" wrote in message
...
Someone must have already compared the safety of these tow launch methods.
What do the statistics show is the safer method of launch? Aero tow seems
to involve more inherent dangers to me. For one thing, there is just more
time for things to go wrong. What could be more dangerous than to tie tow
airplanes together and try to fly?

Gary Boggs

It all depends on what you mean by statistics, and safer.

Harry Enfield (a UK comedian): "Flying is safe, you don't want to worry
about flying; it's crashing that's dangerous."

Winch launching and aerotowing are safe, it's the consequence of
mismanaging an abnormality that's dangerous.

Winch launches yield few accidents in themselves (e.g. occasional ground
loops); a competent pilot should have been trained in, and able to cope
with, a variety of abnormal situations such as cable breaks, too slow,
gradual power failure, etc. All of these are manageable with competent
handling. If badly handled, however, any can lead to a bad, even fatal,
accident. E.g. turning too low and slow after a cable break, leading to
a classic spin. But is that counted as a winch accident, or a failure to
monitor speed while turning close to the ground, i.e. a flight or
pre-landing accident? You may find that statistics are not compiled in
comparable ways over time, or between one club (or organisation, or
country) and another.

Aerotowing is more likely to kill the tug pilot than the glider pilot if
it goes wrong, i.e. the "tug upset" accident which seemed to start in
the 1970's. In terms of accidents per 100,000 launches, however, these
are rare. Oversimplifying to some extent, the only really dangerous
part of an aerotow where the competent glider pilot has little chance of
avoiding a bad accident is a rope break or power failure over bad
terrain, which is only applicable to a small proportion of sites (in my
experience).

Either method can lead very rarely to harm to second or third parties. I
know of one fatality to a ground handler associated with cable launch
operations (UK, 1970's). I know of other injuries from falling cables,
including one dead cow. There has probably been at least one instance
of somebody walking into a tug propellor, somewhere in the world. I
recall one tug accident where a child was a passenger in the tug and was
killed when it spun in (there is an argument for never carrying extra
people in the tug unless required for operational or training reasons -
it adds to the risk by reducing climb performance and increasing the
period of greatest hazard, as well as adding to the number of people at
risk in the operation - but many clubs seem to regard that as
acceptable).

There are some underlying causes of accidents that are more likely to be
found in the winch launch phase that in an aerotow - but could anyway
happen in the subsequent flight. A loose seat back leading to unintended
pitch up, and structural failure, are two I have heard of - winch
launches usually involve greater stresses and more extreme attitudes
than aerotows, unless the latter involve rotor or other adverse
conditions. But the subsequent flight could also have included
turbulence or other stress-inducing circumstances with equally tragic
results, if the problem had survived the launch phase - so should those
be counted as launch accidents?

Beware of the raw statistics.

Chris N.

Beware of the raw statistics.

How about this one:

100% of 2003 US glider fatalities occur after aerotow.

Sounds like a good tag line for a winch manufacturer advertisement

-bob

In article , mowry86
@hotmail.com says...
Beware of the raw statistics.

How about this one:

100% of 2003 US glider fatalities occur after aerotow.

Sounds like a good tag line for a winch manufacturer advertisement

Unfortunately, not true: some have occurred after self-launch, and I
know there have been some ground launch fatalities (how recently, I
can't remember)
--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
.. .
In article , mowry86
@hotmail.com says...
Beware of the raw statistics.

How about this one:

100% of 2003 US glider fatalities occur after aerotow.

Sounds like a good tag line for a winch manufacturer advertisement

Unfortunately, not true: some have occurred after self-launch, and I
know there have been some ground launch fatalities (how recently, I
can't remember)
--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

The following occured in the launch phase

Two fatals I'm aware of. A homebuilt failed structurally in a winch launch
in Colorado some years ago and apparently another homebuilt crashed in North
Carolina in the past couple of weeks on auto tow. Not clear whether the NC
accident pilot was even trained in ground launch. Perhaps someone in that
neck of the woods can offer more information.

A Russia was damaged in Wyoming a few years back on auto tow at a private
ranch strip, however, the grapevine reported the pilot had no specific
ground launch training and cart-wheeled the glider. IIRC, it was properly
repaired and sold.

A sometimes RAS poster was seriously injured in a winch launch accident
involving a Phoebus C in Georgia a few years ago. (stalled all-flying tail
to excessive pitch-up to wing stall, wing-drop, and rolled inverted to
impact)

Any others? Certainly there have been a few at Torrey Pines over the
decades, though environmental factors have been a big player there.

Frank Whiteley

Any others? Certainly there have been a few at Torrey Pines over the
decades, though environmental factors have been a big player there.

Frank Whiteley

Its been a long time now, but a group was auto-towing a Cherokee at Air
Sailing, NV. The initial flights were made with a pulley attached to a stake in
the ground and car driver heading straight for the glider. After several
flights they decided to put the pilley on the car and NOBODY knew that would
DOUBLE the glider speed. The driver "Stood on it " hard and finally obtained
his briefed 50 mph. The glider was now doing 100 and pilot was unable to
release due to excessive tow line pressure. The wings came off and pilot was
killed.

About 20 years back, a group was auto-towing a Monarch at Kingdon, Ca. That
went so well, they decided to hook it up to a tow plane. The ship did several
PIO's as the pilot tried in vain, to release. He survived, but doesen't
remember anything after the 3rd grade.

My pilot licence still reads, "Aero-Tow- Only"
JJ Sinclair

wrote:

How about this one:
100% of 2003 US glider fatalities occur
after aerotow.

Occur *after* aerotow? or *as a direct result of* aerotow?

Errors on the part of the winch driver may leave the glider pilot completely
"hung out to dry" with no risk whatsoever to the winch driver. During aerotow,
the tug pilot is not likely to make mistakes that might kill himself. The
incentive for a safe tow is thus higher for aerotow, because the tow pilot has
built-in accountability. I have driven the winch, and launched my glider by
tug, winch, and auto-tow. I prefer airtow over the other methods, but all can
be safe with proper training and pre-launch briefing.
-
Mark Navarre
ASW-20 OD
California, USA
-

In article ,
says...
Errors on the part of the winch driver may leave the glider pilot completely
"hung out to dry" with no risk whatsoever to the winch driver. During aerotow,
the tug pilot is not likely to make mistakes that might kill himself.

Of course, the winch operator can't make mistakes that will kill him
or her. In addition, I think a major advantage of the winch launch is
the glider pilot can't kill the winch operator! Unfortunately, tug
pilots have put themselves at risk (and been killed because of it)
because of a concern for the glider pilot that is putting the tug
pilot at risk. Sometimes this is just running out of fuel because they
don't want to slow down the launch line; sometimes it's hesitating to
pull the release when low over bad ground.

Personally, I suspect the glider pilot is a little better off behind a
towplane (might be my US training bias), but I have no idea if the
statistics agree with me. The UK and Europe might be able to do a good
comparison, but in the US, winch launching is done in only a few
places.
--
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directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)