AN ENGINE FOR HOMEBUILDERS

But you want to make sure you are taking only the MINIMUM amount
required. So be warned.

I have to ask- what is the reason for only taking the minimum amount? What
kind of nasty things happen if you don't go the minimum way?
--
Jim in NC

On May 22, 12:06*pm, Bob wrote:
Dear Canuck,

Please accept my sincere apology for my unfair assumption (and for
Harry's too) that everyone in the whole wide world is balanced on the
razor's edge of Aviation History.

No harm here gentlemen, I'm too old and all us Canadian lads are a
tough bunch, skin like a rhino.

Actually guys I am aware of the Wright brothers but surely what they
did has no relevance here! I believe it was Quad city UL's or at
least someone who still supplies chains as a PRSU for rotax (i]'ll
track down a link). Also Kitplanes had a great article of a guy using
a Japanese crotch rocket bike motor with a chain drive off the
original sprocket to drive a prop quite a bit above the engine. He
ran 10000 rpm and shifted his tranny for different flight regimes.

I was caught up in the discussion about doing a plane extremely
cheap. Chain drives and sprockets, pillow blocks, cheap shafts, and
everything needed to build a prsu are available and salvagable from
dead machines. A discussion of the merits of the different pulley and
belts is nonsense for a guy in Siberia, Central China and the
Himalayan foothills. Motorcycles and chain driven small farm machines
are EVERYWHERE on this planet in the third world.

On May 22, 10:17*am, wrote:
On May 21, 10:21*am, wrote:

One quick question, will a motorcycle chain system work for a prop?

Hey Canuck,

Where-the-hell you been for the last 106 years? Take a look at a few
old photos and you'll see the answer to your question. Now before
everyone assumes that they know where I'm going with this response,
let me dispell a few myths:

1. it was NOT a bike chain. It was a #35 solid-link chain made by
Diamond. Two props means only 5.75hp per prop, so the #35 was the
correct size for our two brothers from Ohio (same size would work well
on a go-cart).

2. The two biker-brothers from OH were NOT the only ones to use a
chain PSRU successfully. Ben Epps did it in 1907. And some Italian did
it in the teens. Never did identify that plane, but it was a flying-
boat with a high-mounted chain-driven prop.

3 Tortional (sp??) vibration would be a serious issue if you don't
know about the working solution for it. That being a prop-shaft made
of spring-steel. Think tortion-bar suspension. Wil and Orv discovered
this the hard way by cracking two sets of tubular prop-shafts before
treking back home and making a suitable replacement. (Oh yea, don't
forget to squirt a little "Arnstein's tire cement" on the threads of
your shaft nuts or they'll come loose.)

Now would a modern motorcycle chain work? You bet. Would it be really
heavy? You bet. Could you find a suitable airframe that would handle
the weight, deal with the vibes, and last a reasonable amount of time?
Hmmmm. One thing is certain about chains though. They typically draw
1-3% of the engine's power. A belt is usually 5-15%. That's why you
don't see too many belt-driven bicycles out there.

If it were me, I'd be inclined to try two B&S Vanguards driving
outrigger-props via chains or serpentine belts on a test-bench just to
see what I could get. Probably a waste of time, but we are here to
experiment. Too bad all of the small I/C diesels are rediculiously
expensive and super-heavy.

Hey Euro-pilots, got any small diesels that might work with direct-
drive? No dice here in the States. Diesel here equals truck.

Harry

Geschwender used the Morris Hy-Vo chain in his redrives, and they
worked well. That chain has teeth that engage sprockets that look like
gears instead of sprockets, and as the chain curves onto the sprocket
the teeth spread and get tight between the sprocket teeth so there's
no slop.
See http://www.alternate-airpower.com/
and http://www.fairmont-mn.com/altpower/psru.html

Dan

Stealth Pilot schreef:
On Thu, 21 May 2009 16:58:16 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


I wish I had a shop full of TATA engines to play with. There may be a
combination of cam & rod-length that can give a reliable 40hp at an
rpm most suitable for a prop.
TATA?


Tata is a company in India probably every bit as big as General
Motors. primarily selling within India but we do see Tata trucks here
in australia on occasion.

On a recent trip to France I saw Tata on several industrial buildings,
guess it was truck distributors but cannot be sure. BTW Tata are also in
the IT consulting business under the name TCS for Tata Consulting
Services - one of the biggest, and that in a very big market.

wrote:
Geschwender used the Morris Hy-Vo chain in his redrives, and they
worked well. That chain has teeth that engage sprockets that look like
gears instead of sprockets, and as the chain curves onto the sprocket
the teeth spread and get tight between the sprocket teeth so there's
no slop.
See http://www.alternate-airpower.com/
and http://www.fairmont-mn.com/altpower/psru.html

Dan

Ford used a set up like this in the transfer case on some 4 wheel drive
trucks so the parts could be available that way...

Tony

"Anthony W" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Geschwender used the Morris Hy-Vo chain in his redrives, and they
worked well. That chain has teeth that engage sprockets that look like
gears instead of sprockets, and as the chain curves onto the sprocket
the teeth spread and get tight between the sprocket teeth so there's
no slop.
See http://www.alternate-airpower.com/
and http://www.fairmont-mn.com/altpower/psru.html

Dan

Ford used a set up like this in the transfer case on some 4 wheel drive
trucks so the parts could be available that way...

Tony

I have heard that GM did as well, and possibly others.

However, I have not seem tham apart, not studied their manuals.

Peter

"Anthony W" wrote

Ford used a set up like this in the transfer case on some 4 wheel drive
trucks so the parts could be available that way...

The problem there is that both sprockets are the same size, so no prop
speed reduction, there.

I don't know about all of the Chevy front wheel drive cars, but I think they
use hy-vo chains on them. I know the Chevy Citation automatic transmission
used them. I had one fail, after it was side loaded in a collision.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Anthony W" wrote
Ford used a set up like this in the transfer case on some 4 wheel drive
trucks so the parts could be available that way...

The problem there is that both sprockets are the same size, so no prop
speed reduction, there.

I don't know about all of the Chevy front wheel drive cars, but I think they
use hy-vo chains on them. I know the Chevy Citation automatic transmission
used them. I had one fail, after it was side loaded in a collision.

I never had the Ford that I had apart so I can't say for sure but odds
are if someone really wanted to go that route, you could scrounge up
sprockets of various sizes.

I'd rather use a Harley belt primary drive. It's an off the shelf set
up that would require minimal machining to adapt to the purpose. Off
the top of my head, I'd say the reduction is better than 2 to 1 and
replacement belts can be purchased in any city in North America if you
didn't want to bother with mail order.

Tony

"Anthony W" wrote

I'd rather use a Harley belt primary drive. It's an off the shelf set up
that would require minimal machining to adapt to the purpose. Off the top
of my head, I'd say the reduction is better than 2 to 1 and replacement
belts can be purchased in any city in North America if you didn't want to
bother with mail order.

I had thought the same thing before, also.

I've never priced that type of thing, before. Are prices reasonable?
Probably not, I'm thinking.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Anthony W" wrote
I'd rather use a Harley belt primary drive. It's an off the shelf set up
that would require minimal machining to adapt to the purpose. Off the top
of my head, I'd say the reduction is better than 2 to 1 and replacement
belts can be purchased in any city in North America if you didn't want to
bother with mail order.

I had thought the same thing before, also.

I've never priced that type of thing, before. Are prices reasonable?
Probably not, I'm thinking.

Define reasonable. No not cheap new but you can find complete belt
primary drives used on eBay when the hotrodders are swamping them out
for the 3.5 and 4" belts for the custom engines.

The 3.5 and 4" belt setups are running about $1500 and probably not
worth it for what we're talking about. These belts are for engines that
run over 100 BHP peak and the riders of these bikes can be very abusive
when doing burnouts and drag racing.

Tony

Tony