FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

I encourage you to review the rules. IGC is LESS complex,simpler and easier to understand. IGC rules are 15,091 words long compared to 25,804 (US rules).

http://www.fai.org/igc-documents

Go to Sporting Code Section 3 Annex A

1. No 1-34s, etc. so we don't have to worry about low performance gliders when task setting.
YES

2. No LS-6s, Venti and ASW-20Bs&Cs.
No LS-6 or Venti. ASW-20B&Cs HAVE BEEN allowed. They are specifically excluded in Argentina at the next WGC.

3. No speed or altitude limits prior to the start.
Altitude limits are up to CD discretion, similar to US Rules.

4. Much more emphasis on ATs.
YES. There are ONLY Racing Tasks (AT) and Assigned Area Tasks. 50/50 seems to be the philosophy.

5. Score everything according to FAI rules.
YES. See scoring calculations on page 31 & 32 of FAI SC3a rules.

Sean Franke

So, with altitude limits you get VNE dives to the line. Sometimes out
of the clouds. Fun stuff. Advocates have a point, if you want to go
do this stuff at the worlds, practicing at home will help a lot.

8.7 LIST OF APPROVED PENALTIES, page 34
Cloud flying: 100pts first offense, day disqual - second offense, Disqualification - max penalty.

The tactical implications of the FAI scoring formula are subtle and
deep. There are several analyses of the required strategies floating
around the US team. If we go there, be prepared to play a very
different tactical game.
The question for US pilots: do the 99% of you
who are not going to the worlds really want to invest a lot to
learning to play these games? You're going to be landing out a lot
more often btw.

John Cochrane

Keep in mind we are not proposing changing existing US Classes. We are hoping to create a new racing class and positive experience NOT available in the US. It is ONE class. Give US pilots a choice. Seeing how the petition is developing, it's clear a strong voice is growing.

I think the picture painted above about IGC rules is a bit DRAMATIC. I certainly didn't experience that in Prievidza 2010 WGC. I think safety and successful tasking varies according to contest management. That is no different in the US.

Advocates have a point: if you want to learn to play this game it
takes years of practice. The question for US pilots: do the 99% of you
who are not going to the worlds really want to invest a lot to
learning to play these games?

Interesting comment. Besides a refreshing alternative do you think this new class could serve as training for US Team pilots?

Sean Franke

Let's not forget what I consider the most unfair IGC CC rule of
all- no actual weight based handicapping. So if I fly a Discus b at
825 pounds and BB flies a Discus a at 700 pounds, we fly with
the same handicap. I would have a one pound PSF wing loading
advantage, which would be helpful anywhere but the maybe the
UK.
Big, heavy guys take note. I weigh 100 kg. BB considerably
less.

Richard Walters

At 23:13 27 November 2012, wrote:
I encourage you to review the rules. IGC is LESS
complex,simpler and
easier to understand. IGC rules are 15,091 words long
compared to 25,804
(US rules).

http://www.fai.org/igc-documents

Go to Sporting Code Section 3 Annex A

1. No 1-34s, etc. so we don't have to worry about low
performance
gliders when task setting.
YES

2. No LS-6s, Venti and ASW-20Bs&Cs.
No LS-6 or Venti. ASW-20B&Cs HAVE BEEN allowed. They are
specifically
excluded in Argentina at the next WGC.

3. No speed or altitude limits prior to the start.
Altitude limits are up to CD discretion, similar to US Rules.

4. Much more emphasis on ATs.
YES. There are ONLY Racing Tasks (AT) and Assigned Area
Tasks. 50/50
seems to be the philosophy.

5. Score everything according to FAI rules.
YES. See scoring calculations on page 31 & 32 of FAI SC3a
rules.

Sean Franke

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 3:54:51 PM UTC-8, Richard Walters wrote:
Let's not forget what I consider the most unfair IGC CC rule of

all- no actual weight based handicapping. So if I fly a Discus b at

825 pounds and BB flies a Discus a at 700 pounds, we fly with

the same handicap. I would have a one pound PSF wing loading

advantage, which would be helpful anywhere but the maybe the

UK.

Big, heavy guys take note. I weigh 100 kg. BB considerably

less.



Richard Walters




The reference weight for Discus a & b is 367 kg. Every 10 kg incurs a handicap increase of 0,005. Yes, there can be a wing loading difference but it's accounted for in the handicap.

Copied from current handicap list:

"The handicap is based on the performance at the New IGC Reference Mass.
If a glider is flown at a mass not exceeding this reference mass it can be considered as operated within legal mass limits.
Where a glider is flown at a higher mass by necessity, the pilot will have to provide documentation to prove that his glider is
still operated within legal mass limits and the handicap will be increased by 0,005 for each 10 kg or part thereof that the glider
exceeds the reference mass. However the wing loading may in no case exceed 38 kg/m2. In addition the handicap may in no
case exceed 1,09."

Sean Franke

On Tuesday, 20 November 2012 07:42:32 UTC-7, wrote:
The U.S. is moving towards recognizing the Club Class in 2013. A poll has been created to validate interest in establishing FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy in this new class. If approved the U.S. Club Class would be the ONLY U.S. racing class under FAI (IGC) racing rules.



Please sign the petition IF YOU are interested in supporting or flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy.



In the optional personal comment section please enter (if applicable):

1. Your position on the US seeding list.

2. If you have access to or own a Club Class glider, what type.

3. If you are familiar with IGC rules and prefer those rules over US rules.

4. If you would financially or otherwise support development of the US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.

5. If you don't currently fly US contests but would start flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.

6. If you currently fly US contests (Standard, Open, 15m, 18m or Sports) and are interested in flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.

7. Any other comments welcome!



Link to petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/



Sean Franke

US Club Class Team Member

Sean, how are you proposing to score these contests? Are you going to use SeeYou?

Ron Gleason

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 4:31:05 PM UTC-8, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 November 2012 07:42:32 UTC-7, wrote:

The U.S. is moving towards recognizing the Club Class in 2013. A poll has been created to validate interest in establishing FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy in this new class. If approved the U.S. Club Class would be the ONLY U.S. racing class under FAI (IGC) racing rules.







Please sign the petition IF YOU are interested in supporting or flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy.







In the optional personal comment section please enter (if applicable):



1. Your position on the US seeding list.



2. If you have access to or own a Club Class glider, what type.



3. If you are familiar with IGC rules and prefer those rules over US rules.



4. If you would financially or otherwise support development of the US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.



5. If you don't currently fly US contests but would start flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.



6. If you currently fly US contests (Standard, Open, 15m, 18m or Sports) and are interested in flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.



7. Any other comments welcome!







Link to petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/







Sean Franke



US Club Class Team Member



Sean, how are you proposing to score these contests? Are you going to use SeeYou?



Ron Gleason

SeeYou is popular and works well. I propose using SeeYou unless a better solution is brought up.

Sean Franke

Great conversation developing here!

Let's not forget what I consider the most unfair IGC CC rule of
all- no actual weight based handicapping. So if I fly a Discus b at
825 pounds and BB flies a Discus a at 700 pounds, we fly with
the same handicap. I would have a one pound PSF wing loading
advantage, which would be helpful anywhere but the maybe the
UK.
Big, heavy guys take note. I weigh 100 kg. BB considerably
less.

Richard Walters

At 23:13 27 November 2012, wrote:
I encourage you to review the rules. IGC is LESS
complex,simpler and
easier to understand. IGC rules are 15,091 words long
compared to 25,804
(US rules).

http://www.fai.org/igc-documents

Go to Sporting Code Section 3 Annex A

1. No 1-34s, etc. so we don't have to worry about low
performance
gliders when task setting.
YES

2. No LS-6s, Venti and ASW-20Bs&Cs.
No LS-6 or Venti. ASW-20B&Cs HAVE BEEN allowed. They are
specifically
excluded in Argentina at the next WGC.

3. No speed or altitude limits prior to the start.
Altitude limits are up to CD discretion, similar to US Rules.

4. Much more emphasis on ATs.
YES. There are ONLY Racing Tasks (AT) and Assigned Area
Tasks. 50/50
seems to be the philosophy.

5. Score everything according to FAI rules.
YES. See scoring calculations on page 31 & 32 of FAI SC3a
rules.

Sean Franke

Let's not forget what I consider the most unfair IGC CC rule of
all- no actual weight based handicapping. So if I fly a Discus b at
825 pounds and BB flies a Discus a at 700 pounds, we fly with
the same handicap. I would have a one pound PSF wing loading
advantage, which would be helpful anywhere but the maybe the
UK.
Big, heavy guys take note. I weigh 100 kg. BB considerably
less.

Richard Walters

At 23:13 27 November 2012, wrote:
I encourage you to review the rules. IGC is LESS
complex,simpler and
easier to understand. IGC rules are 15,091 words long
compared to 25,804
(US rules).

http://www.fai.org/igc-documents

Go to Sporting Code Section 3 Annex A

1. No 1-34s, etc. so we don't have to worry about low
performance
gliders when task setting.
YES

2. No LS-6s, Venti and ASW-20Bs&Cs.
No LS-6 or Venti. ASW-20B&Cs HAVE BEEN allowed. They are
specifically
excluded in Argentina at the next WGC.

3. No speed or altitude limits prior to the start.
Altitude limits are up to CD discretion, similar to US Rules.

4. Much more emphasis on ATs.
YES. There are ONLY Racing Tasks (AT) and Assigned Area
Tasks. 50/50
seems to be the philosophy.

5. Score everything according to FAI rules.
YES. See scoring calculations on page 31 & 32 of FAI SC3a
rules.

Sean Franke

Let's not forget what I consider the most unfair IGC CC rule of
all- no actual weight based handicapping. So if I fly a Discus b at
825 pounds and BB flies a Discus a at 700 pounds, we fly with
the same handicap. I would have a one pound PSF wing loading
advantage, which would be helpful anywhere but the maybe the
UK.
Big, heavy guys take note. I weigh 100 kg. BB considerably
less.

Richard Walters

At 23:13 27 November 2012, wrote:
I encourage you to review the rules. IGC is LESS
complex,simpler and
easier to understand. IGC rules are 15,091 words long
compared to 25,804
(US rules).

http://www.fai.org/igc-documents

Go to Sporting Code Section 3 Annex A

1. No 1-34s, etc. so we don't have to worry about low
performance
gliders when task setting.
YES

2. No LS-6s, Venti and ASW-20Bs&Cs.
No LS-6 or Venti. ASW-20B&Cs HAVE BEEN allowed. They are
specifically
excluded in Argentina at the next WGC.

3. No speed or altitude limits prior to the start.
Altitude limits are up to CD discretion, similar to US Rules.

4. Much more emphasis on ATs.
YES. There are ONLY Racing Tasks (AT) and Assigned Area
Tasks. 50/50
seems to be the philosophy.

5. Score everything according to FAI rules.
YES. See scoring calculations on page 31 & 32 of FAI SC3a
rules.

Sean Franke