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"Cluster bombs called 'war crime'"



 
 
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  #13  
Old January 25th 04, 01:28 PM
John Mullen
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Ragnar wrote:

"Mike Yared" wrote in message
...


Why did the lawyers not sue Saddam Hussein first? Or the late Soviet


leaders

for the the Soviet Union's 1956 Invasion of Hungary? the 1968 Invasion of
Czechoslovakia; and the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan? Will the late Yuri
Andropov and Leonid Brezhnev be labeled as war criminals in historical
terms?



The lefties involved in these cases don't sue guys like Stalin because they
know what he would do to them. Its easier and more profitable to whine
about the USA because they know they can get away with it.



Stalin is dead.

John

  #14  
Old January 25th 04, 02:21 PM
BUFDRVR
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This is about cluster bombs being
used indiscriminately and killing civilians.


If its about the indiscriminate use of CBUs, no problem since neither the UK
nor the US employed *any* weapon indiscriminately.

If the issue is UXO from CBU employment, this is another matter and one I
believe both the UK and US have done there best to deal with. On averag there's
going to be an approximate 10% dud rate for CBU submunitions (BLUs). In both
Afghanistan and Iraq, leaflets were dropped warning people to stay away from
the unexploded BLUs. Because of the high illiteracy rate in Afghanistan, the
leaflets were in picture form. Because of the remote areas where CBUs were used
in Afghanistan, civilian contact with UXO is minimal. Iraq is a different
story, however a successful one. Submunition dispenser use was pretty heavy in
Iraq and included everything from air delivered to Army ATACMS. Use was
confined, as much as operationally practicable, to use away from major
population areas. With all the use of CBUs in Iraq, and they are still a very
important weapon, the low civilian incident rate (by comparison of quantity
dropped) speaks well for allied air and ground forces.

Those accountable should be punished for their actions.


Current CBUs meet all international requirements for a legal weapon, thus no
punishment is warrented.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"
  #15  
Old January 25th 04, 02:36 PM
The Enlightenment
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"Mike Yared" wrote in message
...
Cluster bombs called 'war crime'


Don't gas bag on.

Being called a war criminal is only has major consequences if you
loose a war or possibly are captured. If you're an American,
Russian, British and possibly Israeli that virtually guarantees that
it's irrelevant.

Loose and all that hype, propaganda and fabrications against you will
turn into victors justice.


  #16  
Old January 25th 04, 03:34 PM
Emmanuel.Gustin
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Mike Yared wrote:

: Why did the lawyers not sue Saddam Hussein first? Or the late Soviet leaders
: for the the Soviet Union's 1956 Invasion of Hungary? the 1968 Invasion of
: Czechoslovakia; and the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan? Will the late Yuri
: Andropov and Leonid Brezhnev be labeled as war criminals in historical
: terms?

(1) That leaders of state run the risk of having to justify themselves
in court is the consequence of the well-functioning of democracy
and the rule of law. To argue that it should not happen because
dictators do not have to justify themselves, amounts to a plea in
favour of totalitarianism -- the only form of government which is
compatible with unaccountable government.

(2) I have no doubt that in historical terms, Brezhnev and Andropov
will be judged harshly. But if the unpunished crimes of some could
serve as a sufficient excuse for the misdemeanours of others, the
courts of justice would be doomed to almost complete inactivity.

Emmanuel Gustin

  #17  
Old January 25th 04, 03:59 PM
cypher745
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Rats,

In response to your eloquent rebuttal.

" Umm, what the **** are you going on about? "

It was you who stated the following "Sure, let's put them all on trial.
Let's also include the US President
responsible for dropping the atomic bombs, the US President responsible for
carpet bombing, napalm and agent orange in Vietnam. US hypocrisy never
ceases to amaze me."

Your statement makes it seem like you think that the use of the atomic bombs
by the US should be considered war crimes. As such, my original question is
valid. Do you think that the greater loss of life on both sides, that would
have
resulted from a direct invasion of Japan would have a been a better
alternative?

I eagerly await your reply.








  #18  
Old January 25th 04, 04:55 PM
Peter Kemp
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:05:58 +1300, "Rats" wrote:

"cypher745" wrote in message
om...
Rats, may ask if you think that the greater loss of life that would have
resulted from a direct invasion of Japan would have a been a better
alternative?


Umm, what the **** are you going on about? This is about cluster bombs being
used indiscriminately and killing civilians.


Err. you're the one who changed the subject from cluster bombs to the
bombings in WWII, specifically carpet bombing and the nuclear bombing
neither of which had cluster bombs included.
So getting ****y because someone else challenges you on it is more
than a little immature.


  #19  
Old January 25th 04, 05:27 PM
Tex Houston
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"Peter Kemp" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:05:58 +1300, "Rats" wrote:

"cypher745" wrote in message
om...
Rats, may ask if you think that the greater loss of life that would

have
resulted from a direct invasion of Japan would have a been a better
alternative?


Umm, what the **** are you going on about? This is about cluster bombs

being
used indiscriminately and killing civilians.


Err. you're the one who changed the subject from cluster bombs to the
bombings in WWII, specifically carpet bombing and the nuclear bombing
neither of which had cluster bombs included.
So getting ****y because someone else challenges you on it is more
than a little immature.


While war itself may very well be a crime whether political, economic or
other, Rats loses sight of the big picture. Bombs are merely tools, no more
no less. Use of a Mk81 at 250 pounds or a T12 at 42,000 pounds, CBUs,
incendiaries, yes even nuclear are just means to accomplish the mission.
Dead is dead. Condemn warfare, not the methods.

Peter, he deserves to be called on his inconsistencies.

Now if we could change this to a subject such as what parameters should you
use to deliver one or more of these bombs from a military aircraft instead
of wallowing in general warfare subjects (for which forums already exist) we
would separate the wheat (of which there has been damn little lately) from
the chaff. Some (I won't say contributors) in this forum seem inordinately
fond of submarines, tanks, NASA and politics. If we stuck to military
aviation we'd be the better for it plus I would not have to maintain a
'Block Sender' list which Rats is assuredly on.

Don't even get me started on Tarver and the fish he hauls in using civilian
bait of little quality.

Regards,

Tex Houston



  #20  
Old January 25th 04, 07:37 PM
Matt Wiser
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"Mike Yared" wrote:
Cluster bombs called 'war crime'
Britain's use of cluster bombs in Iraq, similar
to the ones used by the
United States military, is a "war crime" and
should be referred to the
International Criminal Court (ICC) for prosecution,
academics, lawyers and
human rights activists in London said earlier
this week.
at http://www.washtimes.com/world/20040...3737-4342r.htm

Why did the lawyers not sue Saddam Hussein first?
Or the late Soviet leaders
for the the Soviet Union's 1956 Invasion of
Hungary? the 1968 Invasion of
Czechoslovakia; and the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan?
Will the late Yuri
Andropov and Leonid Brezhnev be labeled as war
criminals in historical
terms?


The problem with academics and many of those complaining about CBUs is
that they are often coming from left-of-center. Sound familiar? Ramsey Clark
and his fronts for the WWP: "International Action Center and ANSWER" come
to mind. Kind of hard to understand the positions of such people when they
wave signs saying "Socialist Worker". Where were these folks when Saddam
was busy killing Kurds, Shiites, Kuwaitis, and Iranians? Saddam started two
wars and lost them. Anyone notice that
those complaining about CBUs were prewar apologists for Saddam?
He provoked a third, and lost his regime, power, and freedom. I'll take use
of CBUs to take out SAM sites, AAA and other artillery batteries, truck parks,
fuel and ammo dumps, radar stations, armor, and other military targets.

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