Problematic medical for potential new student?

Sylvain wrote:
HOWEVER, before doing that, you might want to also talk about
a knowledgeable folks (AOPA again) about the option of going
for the sport pilot certificate instead (if I understand correctly,
as long as you have not been denied a medical and hold a driving
license you are fine, but as soon as you have been denied the
medical, then you have to go through the whole thing of getting
waivers and all that);

what do you guys think?


Let your conscience be your guide. I had a medical examiner tell me the bottom
line with the FAA is that they're trying to prevent a pilot from becoming
incapacitated while at the controls. Is that likely to happen to you? If so,
you should forget the whole thing and just pay an instructor for dual if you
feel the itch to fly.

If you honestly think you're intact enough that you wouldn't be a danger to
yourself or others then I'd be very circumspect in my dealings with the FAA.
There has been some excellent advice already offered suggesting you lay it all
out for a medical examiner BEFORE you fill out any paperwork. He ought to know
what he can get through and what he can't.

I went through a 15 year dry spell courtesy of the FAA and their glorious
medical department. I'd been tentatively hired by USAirways Express as a pilot
and went in to get my 1st class medical renewed (I'd previously gotten one so I
could take the ATP written). As I had passed the triggering age, I was required
to submit to an EKG while hooked up through a modem to Oklahoma City. Although
my doc didn't see anything strange, the FAA did and requested that I submit to a
treadmill stress test a few months after I'd applied for the 1st class. Those
things are expensive.. a couple of thousand dollars.

In the meanwhile, the airline job fell through, my air cargo company went belly
up and I applied to nursing school. Since flying was no longer my primary
activity, I blew off the FAA. They in turn sent me a nastygram stating until I
got a clear treadmill, I was not to fly. Well, alrighty....

I graduated, became a nurse, got fat, developed diabetes and sleep apnea... I
was falling apart.

Fast forward from 1990 to 2003: I was being worked up for a laproscopic gastric
bypass. The anesthesiologist wanted me to have an EKG since I hadn't had one in
years. It showed I'd had a probably heart attack. Funny, you'd think I'd
remember wuch an event but truly I didn't. He sent me to a cardiologist who did
a dobutamine stress test. It said I'd had a probable heart attack. I was then
sent for a heart cath and was mentally prepared for the insertion of a stent.
Forget flying... my gastric bypass was at risk at this point.

I had the heart cath. It showed that 1) I am allergic to Betadine and 2) my
coronary arteries were as clear as the day I was born. All previous indications
were false positives.

I had the gastric bypass, followed the next year by a hip replacement. My
diabetes (which was always controlled by oral medication) dried up. My high
blood pressure dropped. My cholesterol level dropped. My weight plummeted. My
sleep apnea went away. In other words, I waws back in good health. I take no
medication today.

I dragged every bit of documentation to my medical examiner and he punched it
through. I walked out that same day with a brand new third class medical. Next
year I may try for another second class... maybe I won't. But at least I'm
flying again, no thanks to the feds.

The cost of my cardiac workup was a little over $10,000. How many folks have
that to throw around? Particularly cargo pilots?

Frankly, I think if you WANT to fly, you need two doctors: one for your FAA
physical and the other for everything else. The two gentlemen should never
meet. Your primary care physician doesn't need to know about your flying.

OTOH, if you're flying for a living and want to retire, you only need one
physician. You can tell him *all* your problems.

The bottom line: take the train if you think you're a risk. If not, be cautious
in any dealings with the FAA, unless you have money to burn.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Jose wrote:
. One of the things
about the sport pilot is that he is restricted from flying certain
aircraft, certain weather, stuff like that, whereas a private pilot
would not have those restrictions. So, one doesn't have to be in as
"good" health to be good enough for sport pilot as one would need to for
a private pilot.


Do you honestly think there aren't restrictions for private pilots? Try to rent
a B-747. Or even a Baron, if you lack a MEL rating. We won't even go into the
VFR-only types.

There are nothing but restrictions. It doesn't really matter what level of
license you hold.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:v3kAe.5296$rx4.2689@trndny05...
Chris Colohan wrote:

Isn't one of the requirements of flying sport pilot that you swear you
are in good health?

Not that I know of. If you're healthy enough to drive, you're healthy
enough to
fly under sport pilot rules.


Based on what I've seen of some of the retirement villages (i.e., Leisure
World, aka "Seizure World") in Arizona, that's scary.

Remember,
Alot of states will take your drivers license if you have periods of
passing out or seizure. I just wonder how many people admit this to their
states DMV's though? With sport pilot, it will be up to you to admit you can
not fly safely. By all means if you have a condition that would restrict
your driver's license in anyway, don't fly just to get around the FAA rules.
I would advise seeing a doctor and getting his opinion on your conditions ,
and what those conditions may or may not do during flight as well as
medications. I sure ain't a MD so I would not begin to tell you that you can
or can't fly. But I can say use common sense and make sure you are safe to
fly before you do It's only going to take one person having an accident
when they should have never been in the air in the first place and the
driver's license medical is going to go Bye Bye for everyone, IMHO.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
m...
Sylvain wrote:
HOWEVER, before doing that, you might want to also talk about
a knowledgeable folks (AOPA again) about the option of going
for the sport pilot certificate instead (if I understand correctly,
as long as you have not been denied a medical and hold a driving
license you are fine, but as soon as you have been denied the
medical, then you have to go through the whole thing of getting
waivers and all that);

what do you guys think?


Let your conscience be your guide. I had a medical examiner tell me the
bottom line with the FAA is that they're trying to prevent a pilot from
becoming incapacitated while at the controls. Is that likely to happen to
you? If so, you should forget the whole thing and just pay an instructor
for dual if you feel the itch to fly.

If you honestly think you're intact enough that you wouldn't be a danger
to yourself or others then I'd be very circumspect in my dealings with the
FAA. There has been some excellent advice already offered suggesting you
lay it all out for a medical examiner BEFORE you fill out any paperwork.
He ought to know what he can get through and what he can't.

I went through a 15 year dry spell courtesy of the FAA and their glorious
medical department. I'd been tentatively hired by USAirways Express as a
pilot and went in to get my 1st class medical renewed (I'd previously
gotten one so I could take the ATP written). As I had passed the
triggering age, I was required to submit to an EKG while hooked up through
a modem to Oklahoma City. Although my doc didn't see anything strange,
the FAA did and requested that I submit to a treadmill stress test a few
months after I'd applied for the 1st class. Those things are expensive..
a couple of thousand dollars.

In the meanwhile, the airline job fell through, my air cargo company went
belly up and I applied to nursing school. Since flying was no longer my
primary activity, I blew off the FAA. They in turn sent me a nastygram
stating until I got a clear treadmill, I was not to fly. Well,
alrighty....

I graduated, became a nurse, got fat, developed diabetes and sleep
apnea... I was falling apart.

Fast forward from 1990 to 2003: I was being worked up for a laproscopic
gastric bypass. The anesthesiologist wanted me to have an EKG since I
hadn't had one in years. It showed I'd had a probably heart attack.
Funny, you'd think I'd remember wuch an event but truly I didn't. He sent
me to a cardiologist who did a dobutamine stress test. It said I'd had a
probable heart attack. I was then sent for a heart cath and was mentally
prepared for the insertion of a stent. Forget flying... my gastric bypass
was at risk at this point.

I had the heart cath. It showed that 1) I am allergic to Betadine and 2)
my coronary arteries were as clear as the day I was born. All previous
indications were false positives.

I had the gastric bypass, followed the next year by a hip replacement. My
diabetes (which was always controlled by oral medication) dried up. My
high blood pressure dropped. My cholesterol level dropped. My weight
plummeted. My sleep apnea went away. In other words, I waws back in good
health. I take no medication today.

I dragged every bit of documentation to my medical examiner and he punched
it through. I walked out that same day with a brand new third class
medical. Next year I may try for another second class... maybe I won't.
But at least I'm flying again, no thanks to the feds.

The cost of my cardiac workup was a little over $10,000. How many folks
have that to throw around? Particularly cargo pilots?

Frankly, I think if you WANT to fly, you need two doctors: one for your
FAA physical and the other for everything else. The two gentlemen should
never meet. Your primary care physician doesn't need to know about your
flying.

OTOH, if you're flying for a living and want to retire, you only need one
physician. You can tell him *all* your problems.

The bottom line: take the train if you think you're a risk. If not, be
cautious in any dealings with the FAA, unless you have money to burn.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

Frankly, I think if you WANT to fly, you need two doctors: one for your FAA
physical and the other for everything else. The two gentlemen should never
meet. Your primary care physician doesn't need to know about your flying.

Yep, that's what I've always done.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

One of the things
about the sport pilot is that he is restricted from flying certain
aircraft, certain weather, stuff like that, whereas a private pilot
would not have those restrictions. So, one doesn't have to be in as
"good" health to be good enough for sport pilot as one would need to for
a private pilot.

Do you honestly think there aren't restrictions for private pilots?

I write carefully, please read carefully.

I said a pp would not have =those= restrictions. This is not the same
as saying a pp would not have =any= restrictions. A sport pilot may not
fly some of the aircraft that a private pilot may fly. That is to say,
there exist aircraft that a private pilot may fly, but a sport pilot may
not fly. To my knowledge, there are no aircraft that a sport pilot may
fly, which a private pilot may not fly, solely on the basis of the
private/sport designation. A sport pilot is more restricted than a
private pilot.

I honestly do not think that there aren't restrictions for private
pilots. Do you honestly think I think otherwise? Never mind, don't
bother wasting time in the thread.

Jose
r.a.student retained, though I don't follow that group
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Doug S" wrote

As far as the Sport Pilot is concerned, I was trying to avoid that, mainly
because I live in a very busy class B area that has some weird weather
patterns (Detroit Metro); and aside from Plymouth-Mettetal (1D2), there's
not much in the way of uncontrolled airspace around here

Sport pilots may fly in any class of airport. You only have to get a one
time sign-off from a CFI.

My feelings about the chance of you getting a medical, is about zero, unless
you are less than forthcoming about past situations.
--
Jim in NC

Jose wrote:
One of the things about the sport pilot is that he is restricted from flying
certain aircraft, certain weather, stuff like that, whereas a private pilot
would not have those restrictions. So, one doesn't have to be in as "good"
health to be good enough for sport pilot as one would need to for a private
pilot.

Do you honestly think there aren't restrictions for private pilots?

I write carefully, please read carefully.

I said a pp would not have =those= restrictions. This is not the same
as saying a pp would not have =any= restrictions.


There is nothing wrong with my comprehension of what I read. Your writing is
not as accurate as you seem to think it is. You speak of specifics *now*; you
spoke in sweeping generalities *then*.


A sport pilot may not fly some of the aircraft that a private pilot may fly.
That is to say, there exist aircraft that a private pilot may fly, but a sport
pilot may not fly. To my knowledge, there are no aircraft that a sport pilot
may fly, which a private pilot may not fly, solely on the basis of the
private/sport designation. A sport pilot is more restricted than a private
pilot.
I honestly do not think that there aren't restrictions for private
pilots. Do you honestly think I think otherwise? Never mind, don't
bother wasting time in the thread.


Save your sarcasm for someone who gives a ****. You don't want to know what I
honestly think.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:v3kAe.5296$rx4.2689@trndny05...
Chris Colohan wrote:

Isn't one of the requirements of flying sport pilot that you swear you
are in good health?

Not that I know of. If you're healthy enough to drive, you're healthy
enough to fly under sport pilot rules.

Note this clause:

FAR 61.23 (c)(2)(iv) Not know or have reason to know
of any medical condition that would make that person
unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner

IMHO, this is almost as good a catch-all as the "careless or reckless" in
FAR 91.13. That is, if a pilot were involved in any kind of incident in
which a medical condition could be blamed, and the pilot either knew of the
medical condition, or should have known of the medical condition, the FAA is
likely to say that the incident is proof that the "known or have reason to
know" medical condition made that person unable to operate a LSA in a safe
manner.

Just for the icing on the cake, the FAA also is likely to get to interpret
the "have reason to know" clause however they like.

It's not clear to me that they could come after a pilot for violating the
FAA's various medical standards for the medical certificate (prohibited
drugs, for example), but it's not clear to me that they couldn't, either.
The FAA could argue that their list of disqualifying medical conditions in
and of itself constitutes medical conditions that would make a person unable
to operate a LSA in a safe manner.

The bottom line here is that, no...just having a driver's license is not
sufficient. But what exactly IS sufficient is currently a very gray area,
primarily because no one has been violated by the FAA for breaking this rule
(so we have no real idea how it will be applied).

Pete

I wonder what the following situation would be:

Lets say you have a valid medical, go in, and are denied the next one
(for some improvable reason, like you failed the eye exam or high blood
pressure). You then later return and pass the medical. After the
valid one expires, can you then fly Sport Pilot? It would really bite
to not have the option if someone failed an eye exam or something 20
years ago because they didn't know they needed glasses yet.