Took the Kids Up (First Time)

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
Jay,
I think you make a good point. My bigest peeve is you never see a flight
school put an ad in the local newspaper, or in any type of media that is
not just see by the people that are already pilots! I have never seen it
anway. Every other type of biz advertises to gain customers. GA does not.
NONE of these reasons are valid, but we in the GA
world have done a terrible job of spreading the word to the non-flying
public.

Would an ad in the local newspaper draw much attention for a flight school?
When I got interested in flying (finally), I looked through the 'community
education' flyer that came in the mail and found a class for ground school
available. If there are local community colleges around the area that offer
any type of GA training, that'd be a good start and they do 'some'
advertising.

One thing that gets word out about GA in this area (MN/IA) are the flight
breakfasts somewhere just about every Sunday during the summer. The local
communities sponsor and advertise these and have good turnouts by the
locals. I'm planning on Humboldt's fly-in this Sunday and Mankato the next
Sunday, both which have around 100 planes fly in and another 500-1000 locals
show up. Plane rides are offered at these to get local people interested in
GA.

-Greg B.

Ummm....

The 182 ain't far behind you in the lead bricks category.

Jim



"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:VfAKe.238431$x96.114046@attbi_s72...

We have run every W&B scenario in our plane, including four 200 pounders,
plus baggage, plus full fuel. No worries!

:-)

It's one of the few planes that you can do that in.

Greg,
Sounds like they are trying to do something in your area and that is good.
We have several colleges in the area but I do not know if they offer a
ground school or not. If they do they sure don't advertise it! Local
newspapers could be very effective IMO, especially in decent size cities and
towns. You looked at a community college handout and found the ground
school, I don't think alot of people would even think a college did anything
like that. So that may be the last place alot of folks would see. And alot
of folks cringe at the thought of being in a formal classroom again..me
included! HAHA But alot of folks read the paper, or at least get a paper,
and the best ad is the one that gets the attention of someone who is not
looking to be a pilot. An ad is supposed to make you feel like you want to
try a product.
A decent ad with a good intro price, and someone who has had flying GA
in the back of their mind for years, due to paying for a house, sending kids
to school and all those other things in life that comes up with may just get
the incentive to go do it! And the great thing about an ad is it makes
someone think about it that never has before.
Our problem is aviation always waits for people to come to it, instead
of going to the people. Oh and sorry for the mis-spelled words /typos, my 19
month old had knocked my keyboard in the floor and I had keys all over the
place ! got them all back in but some were not functioning all that well
Dang shift key is still only working 50% it seems.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"N93332" wrote in message
...
"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
Jay,
I think you make a good point. My bigest peeve is you never see a
flight school put an ad in the local newspaper, or in any type of media
that is not just see by the people that are already pilots! I have never
seen it anway. Every other type of biz advertises to gain customers. GA
does not.
NONE of these reasons are valid, but we in the GA
world have done a terrible job of spreading the word to the non-flying
public.

Would an ad in the local newspaper draw much attention for a flight
school? When I got interested in flying (finally), I looked through the
'community education' flyer that came in the mail and found a class for
ground school available. If there are local community colleges around the
area that offer any type of GA training, that'd be a good start and they
do 'some' advertising.

One thing that gets word out about GA in this area (MN/IA) are the flight
breakfasts somewhere just about every Sunday during the summer. The local
communities sponsor and advertise these and have good turnouts by the
locals. I'm planning on Humboldt's fly-in this Sunday and Mankato the next
Sunday, both which have around 100 planes fly in and another 500-1000
locals show up. Plane rides are offered at these to get local people
interested in GA.

-Greg B.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:2AyKe.238299$x96.106126@attbi_s72...

You need a Pathfinder, Trent. No W&B issues, ever, and a 1460 pound
useful
load.

I'm a renter right now. Maybe someday. Can anyone loan me some money?

Since April, as a family, we have flown to Florida, Seattle (commercial),
Washington, D.C., Mackinac Island, Door County, WI, Oshkosh, and the
Ozarks,
with many other shorter trips in between.

The sad
thing is, people choose not to fly GA for many bogus reasons, ranging from
cost to "it's too hard." NONE of these reasons are valid, but we in the
GA
world have done a terrible job of spreading the word to the non-flying
public.

I have to disagree there. Those reasons are valid, if only for the family
that feels they are. If I had a full-grown family of four, but couldn't
afford a Pathfinder (or similiar heavy lifter), how could I fly my family on
vacation? If renting a capable plane cost 2 or 3 times as much as a
commercial ticket, how could I justify it? Then there is the cost of time
and money of getting checked out, getting current in said aircraft on top of
all that. All that is a whole lot harder and more expensive than buying a
commercial ticket or just driving.

Enjoy your boat, but don't label GA as being "family unfriendly" simply
because you haven't been able to make it work. Flying is one of the
greatest (and, for a change, useful) family activities there is.

I labeled it family unfriendly because it is unaccessible to most families
because of cost alone. You have to admit that buying an $80,000 airplane is
a HUGE investment; that's roughly what it would cost to own a true
four-place airplane. That's more than some families' houses! And the fact
that your kids (if you have two) can't bring their friends along makes it
even worse. A lot of my friends have 3 or more kids. What are they going to
do?

See where I am going with this? I love aviation and I love to fly. I just
realize that it has its limitations when it comes to family recreation
and/or transportation. It's working for your family and that's great, but
you were wondering why GA isn't more prevelant with families and I'm
offering my point of view.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

I labeled it family unfriendly because it is unaccessible to most families
because of cost alone. You have to admit that buying an $80,000 airplane
is
a HUGE investment; that's roughly what it would cost to own a true
four-place airplane. That's more than some families' houses!

True. However, it's also far less than many of my neighbors have spent on
boating and golf -- two entirely useless (albeit fun) activities -- AND an
airplane is an APPRECIATING asset.

GA costs a fair piece of change for sure -- but look at the rewards! If we
leave at sunrise, we can be in Florida by lunchtime! Or, if we prefer, we
can be at the Smithsonian by late in the afternoon!

Going the other direction, we can be at Mt. Rushmore by supper, or the Lake
Superior shoreline for lunch. Rather head south? We can be in Texas for
an early supper.

See what I mean? GA is THE way to travel the country, so long as you don't
have more than two kids. (And I met two families at the Cherokee Fly-In
last weekend with four kids apiece -- and their Cherokee Sixes did the job
for them quite nicely.)

GA is NOT overly expensive, when compared to the heavy-duty golf aficionado,
or the in-water boater -- and there are literally MILLIONS of them. Sadly,
most of them believe that GA is impossible for them, simply through
ignorance of the situation.

We have GOT to get the message across to that group, somehow.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

GA is NOT overly expensive, when compared to the heavy-duty golf aficionado,
or the in-water boater -- and there are literally MILLIONS of them. Sadly,
most of them believe that GA is impossible for them, simply through
ignorance of the situation.

I personally know of none who feel this way. The ones I know simply have no
interest in aviation (outside the cost of an airline ticket).

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

George Patterson wrote:
Jay Honeck wrote:


GA is NOT overly expensive, when compared to the heavy-duty golf
aficionado, or the in-water boater -- and there are literally MILLIONS
of them.

Not sure what "in-water boater" means but assuming it means the average
boat owner you have got to be kidding. Owning a boat costs a small
fraction of what operating a 182 does. A really nice brand new boat
runs less than $30K. A good used boat is around $10K-15K. Insurance is
hardly anything. Maintenence is zip compared to a plane. No hangar or
its associated insurance. For what I have invested in flying I could
buy each of the four members of my family a brand new boat and trailer
and all the goodies somebody needs for a day of skiing/tubing/fishing.
For the same money I have a near 37 year old plane that I just sold to
buy a 40 year old plane, which costs a little more than 50% more than my
182. The same goes for golf, only more so.

Not sure what "in-water boater" means but assuming it means the average
boat owner you have got to be kidding. Owning a boat costs a small
fraction of what operating a 182 does.

An "in-water boater" is a Great Lakes or open ocean boater. These are the
"big guys" -- the kind that are too big to be transported on a trailer.
Fly around the Great Lakes, and you will see thousands of them.

Each of these guys spends an unbelievable amount of money so that they can
spend 14 weeks each year (on the Great Lakes; more on the ocean, if down
South) getting drunk on what amounts to a small, floating hotel room.

We've got friends who own a 40+ foot yacht on Lake Michigan. It cost over
$300K to acquire, and an amazing amount of money to maintain. (Each year
they have to pay to have it removed with a crane, and then shrink wrapped --
I'm not kidding -- for winter storage.) Worse, it is a depreciating asset,
meaning that it is worth less and less every year. It has two 350-cubic
inch Chevy engines, gets 6 gallons to the mile, and they never, ever leave
the dock.

Yet, they look at Mary and me flying all over the country as an unaffordable
extravagance, even though they know that what we spend is a tiny fraction of
what they spend on boating. And the guy took flight lessons at one time.

The same goes for golf, only more so.

Clearly you have not rubbed elbows with really serious golfers. I know guys
who spend hundreds per WEEK playing golf, all over the country. Hell, a
single Big Bertha driver can cost $400 bucks -- and tee times at the best
courses run into many hundreds of dollars for a single round of golf.

And these guys never play a single round.

It ALMOST makes a Garmin GNS 530 look like a justifiable expense!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"W P Dixon" wrote

For TV, put Paris Hilton in her
bikini crawling in a Cherokee and see how many young male pilots GA
gets!

Shoot, use a real pilot, like Angelena Joilet! She has more to hang out,
too.!

For the potential women pilots, use Harrison Ford.

There are many good examples on each side. I agree.

You could also do a series on someone like Paris Hilton learning to fly, and
show the weekly sessons, culminating in getting her ticket. The EAA did
that with a lady, but she was not a personality, nor did they follow up. In
today's reality TV, how much better could it get?

Wait a minute. Is Paris Hilton smart enough to learn how to pass the
written and learning to fly? g

Note to Paris' lawyers. That was just a joke. g
--
Jim in NC

Hmmm,
Jay as an ex very avid golfer I would say you have not played alot of golf.
I played twice a week for years,...and greens fees vary greatly according to
what part of the country you are in. Amazingly it costs alot more to play
golf in the south than it does out west! Go figure, since they spend tons of
money watering a course in Palm Springs! Playing Indian Wells was very
cheap, on the other hand Ameilia Island , FL you would almost have to
mortgage the house! HAHA Ok not really but it was over 100 bucks.
Smart golfers have custom clubs built for them, my last set which still
sits in my basement collecting dust now, was built for me in Myrtle Beach ,
SC . Built just for me, to my swing , height and with the proper weights for
me. It was about closing time at the golf shop and the fellow really wanted
to make a sale, and I got my new clubs for $189.00. Ok and I really splurged
and spent another 30 on a new putter!
And like everything else in this world you can spend alot or you can
spend alittle. You can play a 20-30 buck green fee course or a 60-80 one.
Most duffers don't play the big buck ones ALL the time.
And thankfully my clubs did not require annual inspections, oil changes,
wiring harness, tires and brakes, and insurance. No finance charges, no
hangar fees, no tie downs. No new GPS to find my way on the course No old
avionics to replace. Sure you could spend 3,000 on a set of clubs, but you
don't have to! And the best set of clubs are ones made for you.
And golf my friend is the most frustrating fun you can have! But it's
just like anything else, it's only as cheap as you are smart. I would bet
alot of you guys spend more in maintinance in a year than I did playing golf
twice a week.
Aviation can be alot cheaper as well. But unless you build a 3000 buck
plane yourself , have your own private airfield on a farm, do your own
maint. You will spend more money. And hey if you get good at golf you never
have to buy the beer!!!!!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:vQUKe.19096$084.3545@attbi_s22...
Not sure what "in-water boater" means but assuming it means the average
boat owner you have got to be kidding. Owning a boat costs a small
fraction of what operating a 182 does.

An "in-water boater" is a Great Lakes or open ocean boater. These are
the "big guys" -- the kind that are too big to be transported on a
trailer. Fly around the Great Lakes, and you will see thousands of them.

Each of these guys spends an unbelievable amount of money so that they can
spend 14 weeks each year (on the Great Lakes; more on the ocean, if down
South) getting drunk on what amounts to a small, floating hotel room.

We've got friends who own a 40+ foot yacht on Lake Michigan. It cost over
$300K to acquire, and an amazing amount of money to maintain. (Each year
they have to pay to have it removed with a crane, and then shrink
wrapped -- I'm not kidding -- for winter storage.) Worse, it is a
depreciating asset, meaning that it is worth less and less every year. It
has two 350-cubic inch Chevy engines, gets 6 gallons to the mile, and they
never, ever leave the dock.

Yet, they look at Mary and me flying all over the country as an
unaffordable extravagance, even though they know that what we spend is a
tiny fraction of what they spend on boating. And the guy took flight
lessons at one time.

The same goes for golf, only more so.

Clearly you have not rubbed elbows with really serious golfers. I know
guys who spend hundreds per WEEK playing golf, all over the country.
Hell, a single Big Bertha driver can cost $400 bucks -- and tee times at
the best courses run into many hundreds of dollars for a single round of
golf.

And these guys never play a single round.

It ALMOST makes a Garmin GNS 530 look like a justifiable expense!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"