Weather Flying - Buck

I'm recently received my IFR ticket and flew in actual a couple weeks
ago for only the 2nd time. I picked up some rime ice at 9000' in a calm
stratus layer. Scared the &#&((*@# out of me! I promptly turned back
for home.

I just didn't feel like I got any real training for this in the IFR
work. Yes, I know the ground school stuff and I scored high on the
written, but that's wholly different.

I received Weather Flying by Buck from Amazon yesterday. And although
I'm only through chapter 2, it seems to be an outstanding book. I
highly recommend it.

On 11/2/2005 10:44 AM, wrote the following:
I'm recently received my IFR ticket and flew in actual a couple weeks
ago for only the 2nd time. I picked up some rime ice at 9000' in a calm
stratus layer. Scared the &#&((*@# out of me! I promptly turned back
for home.

The hood is not actual. Fly actual whenever you can. Get a CFII or a good
instrument pilot to go with you and fly approaches whenever ceilings get low.
Or go alone if you are not in a TRACON environment as we are in Minneapolis. My
target range is 700-900 because my home airport doesn't have an ILS. My goal is
to stay current on a 3 month basis (not 6) strictly by flying actual, though I
can't always achieve this.

I just didn't feel like I got any real training for this in the IFR
work. Yes, I know the ground school stuff and I scored high on the
written, but that's wholly different.

Yes. Re ice, my CFII and I flew in ice a couple of times during training (very
benign, above freezing below the clouds, good ceilings, and the layer only 2000
feet thick) and I have always been grateful to have gotten the experience,
regardless of what the FARs might say about it.


I received Weather Flying by Buck from Amazon yesterday. And although
I'm only through chapter 2, it seems to be an outstanding book. I
highly recommend it.


One of the three books that are permanent on my bookshelf. The others being
Langewiesche's "Stick and Rudder" and Taylor's "Instrument Flying." Buck's
other books are fun, too.

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:25:57 -0600, Mitty wrote:

The hood is not actual. Fly actual whenever you can. Get a CFII or a good
instrument pilot to go with you and fly approaches whenever ceilings get low.
Or go alone if you are not in a TRACON environment as we are in Minneapolis. My
target range is 700-900 because my home airport doesn't have an ILS. My goal is
to stay current on a 3 month basis (not 6) strictly by flying actual, though I
can't always achieve this.

I strongly agree with Mitty above. Like Mitty, I long for those low
ceiling days, and like Mitty, because my home airport only has a VOR
approach, I cannot leave unless I am assured ceilings are 900 or higher for
my return home.

I had a great instructor who lived and breathed hard IFR and I took several
days off so I could get as much actual in. There was one lesson where we
ended up doing three missed approaches for the real reasons it was designed
for and diverting to another airport nearby that had an ILS. We went right
down to the ILS minimums. This was the absolute best thing that happened
to me as when I did my first solo in IMC, I did an ILS broke out at 1000
feet and felt like I had tons of time.

I fly at minimum once a month instrument approaches. I'd like to do it
twice a month. Even on a severe clear day when I do not log it as an
approach, I still want to fly approaches so that I can maintain that
precise feeling needed on approaches.

Yes. Re ice, my CFII and I flew in ice a couple of times during training (very
benign, above freezing below the clouds, good ceilings, and the layer only 2000
feet thick) and I have always been grateful to have gotten the experience,
regardless of what the FARs might say about it.

Never had icing, however, one lesson my CFI and I were in clouds right at
32 degrees. Water was beading up the windscreen, so as long as that was
happening, we were reasonably safe.

Allen

A Lieberman wrote:

Never had icing, however, one lesson my CFI and I were in clouds right at
32 degrees. Water was beading up the windscreen, so as long as that was
happening, we were reasonably safe.

I wouldn't trust that at all. The collection efficiency for ice
increases as the surface gets narrower (towards the wind), so you can
have ice on your antennas when there's still water on your tail; ice on
your tail when there's still water on your wings; and ice on your wings
when there's still water on your windshield.

Fortunately, my Warrior (like most or all Piper PA-28 models) has an
outside air temperature gauge with a long metal probe sticking straight
out into the airstream from the middle of the windshield. Because the
probe is so narrow, ice will form on it before just about anything else
(except maybe the antennas, which I cannot see). I use it as my
early-warning device, and divert to warmer and/or dryer conditions as
soon as the first tiny piece of ice forms on the end of the probe.


All the best,


David

On 11/2/2005 6:18 PM, A Lieberman wrote the following:

Never had icing, however, one lesson my CFI and I were in clouds right at
32 degrees. Water was beading up the windscreen, so as long as that was
happening, we were reasonably safe.

Not if you have the defroster turned on. The windshield will be the warmest
surface on the airplane. Happened to me on Monday this week, water beading and
running on the windshield, ice beginning to form on the OAT probe and the
leading edges. Nothing dangerous, but you can bet I requested an altitude change.

FWIW, I agree with all of Mitty's three books as very good; I have all
three. However, I have found that Machado's two books -on basic pilot
training (I forget the title) and "The Instrument Pilot's Survival
Handbook"- to be right up there with them.

Fortunately, my Warrior (like most or all Piper PA-28 models) has an
outside air temperature gauge with a long metal probe sticking straight
out into the airstream from the middle of the windshield. Because the
probe is so narrow, ice will form on it before just about anything else
(except maybe the antennas, which I cannot see). I use it as my
early-warning device, and divert to warmer and/or dryer conditions as
soon as the first tiny piece of ice forms on the end of the probe.

Don't count on it. I flew into ice in the Blue Ridge mountains; I was
keeping a good eye on that temperature probe and other things sticking
out, but the wings got what I now in retrospect realize was a nice
coating of clear ice while the probe stayed clean as a whistle. Then
all of a sudden the windshield iced up - bang.

I declared an emergency and got vectors to warmer air and an ILS. It
took a while for the ice to come off, but it did before I landed.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

wrote:
A Lieberman wrote:


Never had icing, however, one lesson my CFI and I were in clouds right at
32 degrees. Water was beading up the windscreen, so as long as that was
happening, we were reasonably safe.


I wouldn't trust that at all. The collection efficiency for ice
increases as the surface gets narrower (towards the wind), so you can
have ice on your antennas when there's still water on your tail; ice on
your tail when there's still water on your wings; and ice on your wings
when there's still water on your windshield.

Do you have a freezer in your antennas that freezes the water on them
when it is still above freezing elsewhere (i.e., water on the tail)?


Fortunately, my Warrior (like most or all Piper PA-28 models) has an
outside air temperature gauge with a long metal probe sticking straight
out into the airstream from the middle of the windshield. Because the
probe is so narrow, ice will form on it before just about anything else
(except maybe the antennas, which I cannot see). I use it as my
early-warning device, and divert to warmer and/or dryer conditions as
soon as the first tiny piece of ice forms on the end of the probe.

Yes, ice will form first on small radius surfaces, but not until at or
below freezing temperatures. If you still have water on your wings or
tail, then you won't have ice on your OAT probe.


Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:

Yes, ice will form first on small radius surfaces, but not until at or
below freezing temperatures. If you still have water on your wings or
tail, then you won't have ice on your OAT probe.

From what I've observed so far, there's a zone of ambiguity between
about 1 degC and -5 degC where supercooled droplets may or may not
stick to the airframe as ice. I've seen ice form on the tip of my OAT
probe while there were still drops of water running down its sides, as
well as over the rest of the airframe. Freezing is not an
all-or-nothing proposition.


All the best,


David

Have not yet read Buck's Weather Flying, but I've heard so many glowing
recommendations - this one being just the most recent - that I now know
what to ask for for Christmas.