Just Bought A Plane? STAY OUT OF FLORIDA !

In article , Jay Maynard says...
Jim Campbell has been printing or posting an annual anti-SnF rant every March
for over ten years now, and having just lost his second lawsuit against them
probably hasn't improved his attitude. He also just got nailed by the Florida
tax folks for a tax lien dating back to the US Aviator days. I suspect the
opportunity to slam both SnF and the Florida tax folks was heaven-sent.

Undoubtedly. That doesn't make it automatically wrong, as several folks here
suggest.

Nobody is saying he's automatically wrong what we're saying is that many times
what zoom says is suspect as to details ,motive and spin. He will never hesitate
to use the power of the press to promote his agenda. There is a kernel of truth
in this story which could have stood on it's own as it did months ago.

Now as he usually does he prints the story with enough facts to seem
truthful,adds spin to obfuscate the facts ,confuse the details and then promote
his anti Sun n Fun agenda.

So far I've seen "one" case detailing a problem ,hardly an epidemic, some
confusion from a couple of alphabet orgs, a clarification from the President of
Sun n Fun who has more at stake then any of the aforementioned orgs ,stating the
SnF will not be targeted by the tax guys.
When it comes to credibility zoom is as truthful as a politician.

I'm going to be there with a booth and I bet no one will be cited for taxes
..Wanna bet? :-)

Chuck S

[Follow-up changed to RAH only]

On 3 Apr 2008 05:18:45 -0700, ChuckSlusarczyk
wrote:

In article , Ron Wanttaja says...
Jim Campbell...also just got nailed by the Florida
tax folks for a tax lien dating back to the US Aviator days.

What tax lien was that??

Failure to pay unemployment tax, from 1996. It's hard to read, but it looks
like the amount is a big $196:

(Clicking the link often just puts you into the entry page for the Search
engine. Either cut-and-paste the link, or enter "Airedale" as a search term.)

http://ori2.polk-county.net/wb_or1/d...doc_s tatus=V

Seems to me that Florida would have forgotten that one long ago, but in January
of this year, a notice was filed indicating that the lien had finally been
settled:

http://ori2.polk-county.net/wb_or1/d...doc _status=V

I think the odds are very thin that Zoom had just come across the old bill and
said, "Gee, guess I'd better pay this off." He undoubtedly got dunned by the
Florida Department of Revenue.

His bankruptcy case was finally closed by the court two years ago. Zoom ended
up paying about 2/3rds of the amount he'd agreed on to settle the trustee's
fraud/perjury lawsuit, but IIRC, the agreement required that *all* back taxes
had to be paid. Suspect this one had been left over.

Ron Wanttaja

On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 22:03:17 -0700, Ron Wanttaja
wrote:

On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 21:53:29 GMT, Jay Maynard
wrote:

On 2008-04-02, Morgans wrote:
"Jay Maynard" wrote
There's gotta be fire under the smoke; EAA wouldn't be publishing this one
right before Sun n Fun if there weren't some basis for it.
Did you not see what the Florida guberment put out, in response to AOPA's
inquiry?
They WILL NOT have a presence at Sun and Fun. None. Zip. Nada.
No trying to catch anyone with an untaxed plane. No Ramp Checks.

So they claim, at least. I'm not sure I trust them. Would you trust the IRS
if they made a similar statement? EAA has all the reason in the world not to
publicize things that would hurt Sun n Fun, yet they publicized this one.

I've been generally staying out of this one, but I've got a few comments here.

1. Yes, if a government agency (even the IRS) put out a press release saying
"We won't do 'X' next month," (where 'X' is a very specific action), I believe
they won't. The mainstream media gets REAL excited when they catch government
reps in a bald-faced lie, and doing so is considered a CLM among government
press agents. Dodge, equivocate, yes, but saying "We won't do 'X' next month"
is pretty definitive.

2. I further believe the Florida tax folks in this case, as tourism is a major
Florida industry. I don't think the state and local governments would stand for
it if the tax department decided to disrupt a major event that brings hundreds
of thousands of well-heeled individuals to the state every year.

3. EAA and AOPA's messages are a reaction is due to their *member's* concerns,
not an indicator as to how serious the threat to Sun-N-Fun really was. If the
subject is at least *possible*, they're going to respond to it if enough of
their members ask. And as AvWeb has pointed out, Florida is not the first state
to institute this sort of policy.

Jim Campbell has been printing or posting an annual anti-SnF rant every March
for over ten years now, and having just lost his second lawsuit against them
probably hasn't improved his attitude. He also just got nailed by the Florida
tax folks for a tax lien dating back to the US Aviator days. I suspect the
opportunity to slam both SnF and the Florida tax folks was heaven-sent.

Ron Wanttaja


Anything comong from the mouth or pen or keyboard of Jim Campbell is
automatically suspect, by definition. If it has ANYTHING, REMOTELY to
do with Sun'n Fun, it is no longer suspect, but absolutely, without a
doubt, to be discounted as the ravings of an angry psycopathic
sociopath.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On 2008-04-03, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:
Anything comong from the mouth or pen or keyboard of Jim Campbell is
automatically suspect, by definition. If it has ANYTHING, REMOTELY to
do with Sun'n Fun, it is no longer suspect, but absolutely, without a
doubt, to be discounted as the ravings of an angry psycopathic
sociopath.

This is precisely what I've been arguing against. If Zoom said the sky was
blue, would you say it was green?

If it was just Zoom, I'd be highly skeptical. It's not just Zoom.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:12:15 GMT, Jay Maynard
wrote:

On 2008-04-03, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:
Anything comong from the mouth or pen or keyboard of Jim Campbell is
automatically suspect, by definition. If it has ANYTHING, REMOTELY to
do with Sun'n Fun, it is no longer suspect, but absolutely, without a
doubt, to be discounted as the ravings of an angry psycopathic
sociopath.

This is precisely what I've been arguing against. If Zoom said the sky was
blue, would you say it was green?

If it was just Zoom, I'd be highly skeptical. It's not just Zoom.


Not JUST zoom, but there are some out there who think Zoom is da bomb,
and will repeat, support whatever he says.

Get the facts (you won't get them from Zoom) then assess what the
danger is.

Florida can not tax a plane or any other item NOT owned or controlled
by "Floridians" - they define who a "Floridian" is. If you have no
business presence in Florida, own no property there, and do not have a
"permanent" address there, it is pretty unlikely they would have a leg
to stand on taxing your proiperty.

If you are, by their definition a "floridian" and their law says a tax
must be paid on an item brought into the state, you PAY THE TAX. If
you try to get away without paying and get caught, you pay the TAX
plus a PENALTY.
No different in that situation than in any other state, province, or
country.

Florida may have, or may not have, more taxes than other
jurisdictions.
However, if they say, as they have, that they will have NO enforcement
presence at Sun 'n Fun, you can bank on it.
After publicly stating they will not, they have NO CHANCE of winning
in court if they try to enforce a tax at that venue. ANd the court of
Public Opinion would crucify them. In the current financial
environment they need all the Positive Press they can get, and all the
tourist dollars. It would be nothing short of suicide economically to
do anything stupid.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On 2008-04-03, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:
Not JUST zoom, but there are some out there who think Zoom is da bomb,
and will repeat, support whatever he says.

I'm not one of them, and anyone who thinks I am is just plain wrong.

Get the facts (you won't get them from Zoom) then assess what the
danger is.

I'm watching AOPA and EAA. I think they're trustworthy. I haven't even read
Zoom's version of the story.

Florida can not tax a plane or any other item NOT owned or controlled
by "Floridians" - they define who a "Floridian" is. If you have no
business presence in Florida, own no property there, and do not have a
"permanent" address there, it is pretty unlikely they would have a leg
to stand on taxing your proiperty.

However, they appear to have done it anyway, based on the stories that have
been posted here.

However, if they say, as they have, that they will have NO enforcement
presence at Sun 'n Fun, you can bank on it.

Nobody can bank on anything a government says when it says that it will pass
on collecting tax revenue.

After publicly stating they will not, they have NO CHANCE of winning
in court if they try to enforce a tax at that venue. ANd the court of
Public Opinion would crucify them. In the current financial
environment they need all the Positive Press they can get, and all the
tourist dollars. It would be nothing short of suicide economically to
do anything stupid.

You're assuming that governments act sensibly. Too often, they don't.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

On 2008-04-03, ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
Nobody is saying he's automatically wrong what we're saying is that many
times what zoom says is suspect as to details ,motive and spin. He will
never hesitate to use the power of the press to promote his agenda. There
is a kernel of truth in this story which could have stood on it's own as
it did months ago.

None of this matters in the slightest. It's not Zoom's story any more, if
indeed it ever was.

Now as he usually does he prints the story with enough facts to seem
truthful,adds spin to obfuscate the facts ,confuse the details and then
promote his anti Sun n Fun agenda.

I don't care. I'm not getting my information from Zoom, and all of this
anti-Zoom argumentation has exactly zero to do with the story.

So far I've seen "one" case detailing a problem ,hardly an epidemic, some
confusion from a couple of alphabet orgs, a clarification from the President of
Sun n Fun who has more at stake then any of the aforementioned orgs ,stating the
SnF will not be targeted by the tax guys.
When it comes to credibility zoom is as truthful as a politician.

Yet you seem to believe the Florida tax people, even though they're as bad
as politicians.

I'm going to be there with a booth and I bet no one will be cited for
.taxes Wanna bet? :-)

I'd love to be there and see for myself, but I'm going to be working, darn
it. In any event, I'm not the one running the risk. If you think the risk is
acceptable, then go, have fun, and make money, with my blessings (not like
you need them, but still...).

My roommate's dad is going to SnF. I may well go there myself next year,
with airplane. (By then, I'll have paid Minnesota's use tax, which is higher
than what Florida charges, so I'll be immune even if this does prove to be
real.) I understand it's a great time. I hope Florida does come to its
senses and casts into law and regulation that they will only attempt to
collect tax from Florida residents. Until that time, considering the risk
that they will try to collect tax from nonresidents with shiny new airplanes
is merely prudent.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

Jay Maynard wrote:
On 2008-04-03, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:
Anything comong from the mouth or pen or keyboard of Jim Campbell is
automatically suspect, by definition. If it has ANYTHING, REMOTELY to
do with Sun'n Fun, it is no longer suspect, but absolutely, without a
doubt, to be discounted as the ravings of an angry psycopathic
sociopath.

This is precisely what I've been arguing against. If Zoom said the sky was
blue, would you say it was green?


NO but I would damn sure verify that it was blue and never ever accept
his word for it.

The difference is that if YOU told me it was blue...I would probably
accept your word for it until you were proven wrong. Even if proven
wrong, I would probably accept your statements in the future unless
you were proven to be lying repeatedly and for your own purposes. In
other words, I accept honest mistakes but not intentional
fabrications. Once I lose trust in your statements, your credibility
is gone and everything you say in the future is suspect and not to be
accepted. That is what has happened with many people here, we have
experienced the lies and fabrications of the past from Campbell and
now all credibility is lost.

No credible publication should be accepted when used as a personal
vehicle for attacking ones perceived enemy's in print for public use
without providing the victims a venue for debate or to counter the
story. Campbell has used his printed magazine and now his web based
publication for just that purpose for a long time. When people
started using the usenet to counter some of his lies, he tried to
silence them with lawsuits and threats of lawsuits.

So if people here don't seem to accept anything he prints, it is not
without justification.


If it was just Zoom, I'd be highly skeptical. It's not just Zoom.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

On 2008-04-03, BobR wrote:
No credible publication should be accepted when used as a personal
vehicle for attacking ones perceived enemy's in print for public use
without providing the victims a venue for debate or to counter the
story. Campbell has used his printed magazine and now his web based
publication for just that purpose for a long time. When people
started using the usenet to counter some of his lies, he tried to
silence them with lawsuits and threats of lawsuits.

So if people here don't seem to accept anything he prints, it is not
without justification.

All of this would be relevant if it was just Zoom. It's not just Zoom.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

Jay Maynard wrote:
On 2008-04-03, BobR wrote:
No credible publication should be accepted when used as a personal
vehicle for attacking ones perceived enemy's in print for public use
without providing the victims a venue for debate or to counter the
story. Campbell has used his printed magazine and now his web based
publication for just that purpose for a long time. When people
started using the usenet to counter some of his lies, he tried to
silence them with lawsuits and threats of lawsuits.

So if people here don't seem to accept anything he prints, it is not
without justification.

All of this would be relevant if it was just Zoom. It's not just Zoom.


Here's how this all played out.

1. Fl DOF writes a poorly worded website designed to read by FLORIDA
aircraft brokers and dealers.

2. Zoom publishes his story that the sky is falling.

3. Lots of people read that the sky is falling.

4. A subset of the people mentioned in 3 are AOPA and EAA members so
they call/e-mail AOPA and EAA to see if the sky is falling.

5. The EAA and AOPA look outside and see that the sky is not falling but
need conformation from the FL DOF to prove the sky is not falling.

6. The FL DOF being the same bunch of idiots that produced the poorly
worded website to begin with are, as mentioned above idiots, and won't
come out and say that they have no power to tax someone that has no
connection with Florida other than flying an airplane there because it
is the FL DOF job to drag in as much money as they possible can and they
might some day figure out how to do just that. But they so have the gust
to at least say they aren't going to be camped out at SNF.

Now let's look at the chain and see what could have been removed and
there be no problem.

#1 No, sure they could have written the page better but it is correct if
read by the people it is aimed at.

#3. No, that's what the Internet is for.

#4 & #5 No, that's what the EAA & AOPA is for.

#6 No, They are state employees.

That leaves #2.