#1 Piston Fighter was British

(ArtKramr) wrote in message ...
Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: (The Revolution Will Not Be Televised)
Date: 6/30/03 7:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time

ir enough. Now jus take the P-51 out of the mix as though it never existed
and see what you end up with.

Look at what happened before it showed up. There was more going on
than just the Mustang.

Gavin Bailey

-

LIke what? The war actually began on D-Day. Everythig before that was a long
list of trivial attacks like Dieppe that mostly failed.

Arthur Kramer

I can't wait to hear the result of your trying to make such an
outlandish claim to a veteran who had been slogging his way along in
Italy, or who had fought with Eigth Army (BR) in North Africa, when
you try to dump that particular load of fecal matter on him. No to
mention the odd Russian who had already started slogging his way
towards Berlin before we managed to pull off the Normandy landings.
And how about those 8th AF types who were already seeing friends dying
in droves *before* D-Day? Any natural teeth you may still enjoy the
company of will likely be a brief memory should you feel a burning
desire to share such drivel with any of the above.

This reprehensible statement rivals your past mealymouthed mutterings
in regards to how those who served during WWII without seeing combat
in the air over Europe somhow don't meet up to your own high standards
of honorable conduct, how officers are much smarter than enlisted men,
groundcrews did not experience war, etc. Stick to talking about that
small, finite element of the war about which you may have a clue (B-26
air operations in Europe); everytime you meander from that topic you
further reveal how increasingly imbecilic you really are.

Brooks

Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 6/30/03 11:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: nk.net


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

Tell us about your march from Normandy to the Elbe.


At 10,000 feet and 50 times.


Interesting. I wouldn't have thought there was room to stand in the nose of
a B-26.



Now tell us about your combat experiences
wannabee.


I have none, all I know about it came from reading.


Yeah. It shows.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

I have none, all I know about it came from reading.


Yeah. It shows.


One cannot learn from reading?

In message , ArtKramr
writes
Tell us about your good old days with the Africa Corps and the greatness of
Hitler.

One grandfather got a free tour of North Africa, keeping RAF aircraft
flying: probably not wise to tell him the war hadn't started at that
point. It was a pretty real war to him and the men around him.

(Another started the war a couple of days before the UK, but then he was
a pilot with the Polish Air Force. You _definitely_ wouldn't have wanted
to tell him there wasn't really a war on...)

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...

One grandfather got a free tour of North Africa, keeping RAF aircraft
flying: probably not wise to tell him the war hadn't started at that
point. It was a pretty real war to him and the men around him.

(Another started the war a couple of days before the UK, but then he was
a pilot with the Polish Air Force. You _definitely_ wouldn't have wanted
to tell him there wasn't really a war on...)


To know war one must serve as a B-26 bombardier. I'm sorry, but your
grandfathers just aren't qualified.

Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: "Paul J. Adam"
Date: 6/30/03 1:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

In message , ArtKramr
writes
Tell us about your good old days with the Africa Corps and the greatness of
Hitler.

One grandfather got a free tour of North Africa, keeping RAF aircraft
flying: probably not wise to tell him the war hadn't started at that
point. It was a pretty real war to him and the men around him.

(Another started the war a couple of days before the UK, but then he was
a pilot with the Polish Air Force. You _definitely_ wouldn't have wanted
to tell him there wasn't really a war on...)

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam


I should have said the war in western europe. Sorry I left that out.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On 30 Jun 2003 21:56:02 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

I should have said the war in western europe. Sorry I left that out.

Fair enough, and I agree that the critical period in the west was
D-Day to V-E Day. Nonetheless, the real war existed beforehand. Like
Paul, I'd have been interested to see my great uncles reaction to
being told he wasn't fighting a real war after Hamburg, Peenemunde,
six trips to Berlin and being shot down in February 1944 on the way
back from Schweinfurt, costing the life of one of his crew.

I'm grateful for what you did, Art, but you weren't completely alone
in what you did. That takes nothing away from the risks you and your
crew and group ran and had to face every day to get your job done.

Gavin Bailey

--

"...this level of misinformation suggests some Americans may be
avoiding having an experience of cognitive dissonance."
- 'Poll shows errors in beliefs on Iraq, 9/11'
The Charlotte Observer, 20th June 2003

Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: (The Revolution Will Not Be Televised)
Date: 7/1/03 1:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

should have said the war in western europe. Sorry I left that out.

Fair enough, and I agree that the critical period in the west was
D-Day to V-E Day. Nonetheless, the real war existed beforehand. Like
Paul, I'd have been interested to

In Western Europe before D Day there were only impotent failed thrusts that led
to nothing. Dieppe for example. The moment the first Allied soldier set foot
on the Normandy beach, the end was in sight for Germany. We flew two missions
that day. You would have loved the fun.


Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On 01 Jul 2003 14:26:35 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

In Western Europe before D Day there were only impotent failed thrusts that led
to nothing.

Some my great-uncles "impotent failed thrusts":

30/31 January 1944. LM310. Berlin. Take off 1708. Landing 2343.

[534 aircraft dispatched, including 440 Lancasters. 33 aircraft lost,
32 of them Lancasters. This was Bomber Command's third raid on Berlin
over the past four nights. It was his eighth trip to Berlin]

Perhaps you might have loved the fun.

Gavin Bailey

--

"...this level of misinformation suggests some Americans may be
avoiding having an experience of cognitive dissonance."
- 'Poll shows errors in beliefs on Iraq, 9/11'
The Charlotte Observer, 20th June 2003

ArtKramr wrote:

snip

should have said the war in western europe. Sorry I left that out.

Fair enough, and I agree that the critical period in the west was
D-Day to V-E Day. Nonetheless, the real war existed beforehand. Like
Paul, I'd have been interested to

In Western Europe before D Day there were only impotent failed thrusts that led
to nothing. Dieppe for example. The moment the first Allied soldier set foot
on the Normandy beach, the end was in sight for Germany. We flew two missions
that day. You would have loved the fun.

In all fairness, Dieppe was a raid. It not intended to take and
hold territory, but rather only as a test of the German's
defenses. Dieppe did establish that any Allied invasion of
Europe would mean coming across the beach and not by capturing
and using a sea port.

Dieppe had its value, and its cost. Was it worth it? I don't
know.

David