L 33 Solo Gliders

In the W&W Claasifieds there is a L33 Solo listed for 13K Canadian, that about 9400 USD.
I read Dick Johnsons flight report and he liked it, he was concerned that it had very little aerodynamic stall warning and would readily drop into a spin. He thought it best if low timers had real spin training before taking it out.
He also measured the performance at 31/1
For those who have owned these...
Are they easy or difficult to rig?
How have they held up?
Can you leave them tied out for the season? [ There all metal except for the rudder which is fabric]
Is the 31/ 1 LD sufficient for day in day out XC?
Are they nice to thermal?
Are they suitable for beginners with proper spin training?
Do you guys give them the overall thumbs up or thumbs down?
Thanks in advance!
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.

I flew one twice, landed out on second flight and spent more time than I liked figuring out how the wheel brake worked.

Rig and derig better than many other gliders of similar vintage.

Comparable performance and handling to the PW-5 for less money. Neither has penetration. The accident record is well populated with L-33s trying to stretch glides back to the home field.

I saw one written off because the canopy was not properly closed and the pilot held the canopy down and sideslipped because he did not have a hand free to use the spoilers. The pin can sit on top of the tube leaving a really narrow gap that is hard to catch.

HINT: Right rudder.

Parts can be a problem.

At 15:33 14 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
In the W&W Claasifieds there is a L33 Solo listed for 13K
Canadian, that
about 9400 USD.
I read Dick Johnsons flight report and he liked it, he was
concerned that
it had very little aerodynamic stall warning and would readily
drop into a
spin. He thought it best if low timers had real spin training
before
taking it out.
He also measured the performance at 31/1
For those who have owned these...
Are they easy or difficult to rig?
How have they held up?
Can you leave them tied out for the season? [ There all metal
except for
the rudder which is fabric]
Is the 31/ 1 LD sufficient for day in day out XC?
Are they nice to thermal?
Are they suitable for beginners with proper spin training?
Do you guys give them the overall thumbs up or thumbs down?
Thanks in advance!
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.

Never flown one but why would you buy a glider that readily spins
at any price? It's not like there are no alternatives.

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 12:30:06 PM UTC-7, Dave Walsh wrote:
At 15:33 14 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
In the W&W Claasifieds there is a L33 Solo listed for 13K
Canadian, that
about 9400 USD.
I read Dick Johnsons flight report and he liked it, he was
concerned that
it had very little aerodynamic stall warning and would readily
drop into a
spin. He thought it best if low timers had real spin training
before
taking it out.
He also measured the performance at 31/1
For those who have owned these...
Are they easy or difficult to rig?
How have they held up?
Can you leave them tied out for the season? [ There all metal
except for
the rudder which is fabric]
Is the 31/ 1 LD sufficient for day in day out XC?
Are they nice to thermal?
Are they suitable for beginners with proper spin training?
Do you guys give them the overall thumbs up or thumbs down?
Thanks in advance!
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.

Never flown one but why would you buy a glider that readily spins
at any price? It's not like there are no alternatives.

SGS-2-32, North American T-6, both spin readily and are great birds!

Jonathan St. Cloud wrote on 3/14/2020 12:46 PM:
On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 12:30:06 PM UTC-7, Dave Walsh wrote:
At 15:33 14 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
..
..
..
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.

Never flown one but why would you buy a glider that readily spins
at any price? It's not like there are no alternatives.

SGS-2-32, North American T-6, both spin readily and are great birds!

For your 14 year old son?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 12:49:19 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Jonathan St. Cloud wrote on 3/14/2020 12:46 PM:
On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 12:30:06 PM UTC-7, Dave Walsh wrote:
At 15:33 14 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
.
.
.
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.

Never flown one but why would you buy a glider that readily spins
at any price? It's not like there are no alternatives.

SGS-2-32, North American T-6, both spin readily and are great birds!

For your 14 year old son?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Nick,
Our club has a couple and I've flown them on occasion. I'm not a big guy, but I found them very tight through the shoulders. They can be tied out, but our experience is that they aren't very rugged and accumulate lots of rash in a club environment. They particularly don't like tail first landings.

For your 14yo son, you might consider an older standard Astir or a Jantar. They're built like tanks (particularly the Jantar). I've flew an Astir as a younger pilot and found it to have decent performance and to handle reliably. Not as harmonious as an LS-3, but very honest.

Cheers,
Craig
JN

There’s good deals on L-33’s to be had. I’ve been maintaining the two that Craig spoke of for the last 4 years and have some experience flying them. They’re very rugged but parts can be an issue. Drag an aileron on pavement? $6,000 for a new one from Vitek. (They’re not repairable.) Great flying, comfortable ship that can be left outside. I think a L-23 is more prone to spin than a L-33. Not much of cross country machine but better than an 1-26.

I was fortunate to have been in a club which had an L-33. I found it to be a joy to fly. The cockpit was comfortable, and it had great visibility and control harmony. If your son is solo in an L-23 or Grob, he should have no problem with an L-33. Of course, with it's lighter weight and shorter wings it is more nimble. It requires a little more care to maintain proper pitch attitude, almost like flying a single seat glass ship.

There are really no serious "Got ya's" from a flying standpoint. I intentionally stalled and spun the L-33 many times. Stall and spin entries were predictable, as were the recoveries. Nor were the stall or spin entries abrupt or without warning.

One thing to be aware of is that the spoilers are extremely effective. Trying to flare with full spoilers and low airspeed will likely mean banging down hard tail first and putting creases in the tail cone just forward of the vertical stabilizer.

Tying down all year is just fine. Of course, like anything else left out, the weather will take it's toll. Be aware that the pin that holds the horizontal stabilizer needs to be taken out more than once a year to be cleaned and greased. Otherwise, it can seize. I can tell you from personal experience that makes it a major pain to take off the horizontal stabilizer.

Rigging is easy, primarily due to the light weight and short wings. However, two things to be aware of. Somebody who is completely unfamiliar with an L-33 can get the main pins installed in such a way that they look like they are in and locked, but are not. On glass ships, the spar butt length is about the width of the fuselage, but on the L-33 the spar butt length is about half the width of the fuselage. That makes it difficult to hang on to it while sticking the spar butt into the hole. Best to use three people, two on root (one on the trailing edge, one on leading edge), and one on the tip. Or use one man rigging gear. Yes, I have rigged L-33s many time with only two people, but it was a challenge for me to handle the root by myself.

Flying X-C in the L-33 was fun, but it was annoying to watch the glass ships consistently out run me. Out climbing them was fun, though. Look on the bright side, your son's land outs will be closer to home. Make sure you get a good trailer.

Originally Posted by Dave Walsh[_2_]

At 15:33 14 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
In the W&W Claasifieds there is a L33 Solo listed for 13K
Canadian, that
about 9400 USD.
I read Dick Johnsons flight report and he liked it, he was
concerned that
it had very little aerodynamic stall warning and would readily
drop into a
spin. He thought it best if low timers had real spin training
before
taking it out.
He also measured the performance at 31/1
For those who have owned these...
Are they easy or difficult to rig?
How have they held up?
Can you leave them tied out for the season? [ There all metal
except for
the rudder which is fabric]
Is the 31/ 1 LD sufficient for day in day out XC?
Are they nice to thermal?
Are they suitable for beginners with proper spin training?
Do you guys give them the overall thumbs up or thumbs down?
Thanks in advance!
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.

Never flown one but why would you buy a glider that readily spins
at any price? It's not like there are no alternatives.

Typical smarta#s answer that ****e# people off. Come on. This person is asking whether anyone has any info confirming this.

Gatineau Glidong Club in Ottawa Canada operates three L-33 Solos for club use over about 15 years. They were very nice vice-free gliders safely flown by low time club pilots. We still have a clean example for sale on W&W at a good price if you're interested. The club eeplaced them with a pait of Juniors.

Ian IN