canopy tint

Most art museums use some version of the Littlemore Scientific
Engineering Co (ELSEC) Crawford 760 or 763 UV meter. I've got one that
I use to evaluate window glazing and tinting systems. For instance,
there is a belief that all glazing that's laminated will stop UV, but
I've found that sometimes a glazing unit made with .030 laminating
interlayer won't stop quite enough so we have to spec it up to .060
interlayer which so far has always made the cut. 100% of the materials
that pass or fail the UV test are branded "stops 99.9% UV" so that
claim doesn't mean much.

My understanding is that most plastics are heavily doped with UV
inhibitors to prevent failure of the plastic and not out of any desire
to protect the end user from skin cancer. All the plastic I've bought
from the local plastic store has been well within the accepted limits.
Anyway, one day I took the meter out to the line and started checking
canopies with the expectation that all the canopies would stop enough
UV to make it a non-issue. All of the DG canopies I checked were 100%
good. On an LS1, the fixed section was good and the removable section
very poor. In general most of the older canopies were not that great.

Now the meter is designed to measure all of the UV, not just the
cancer causing part of the spectrum, so using this meter for this use
seems likely to cause a lot of false negatives. All I take from it is
that newer canopies, in particular DG canopies are probably blocking
enough UV.


On Aug 1, 7:05 am, sisu1a wrote:
On Aug 1, 5:55 am, Ed Downham wrote:

Having flown with a variety of tinted/non-tinted canopies, I would say that
on an average soaring day they seem to make very little difference to
vision and/or heating. In very low light levels (twilight/dark) I'd
prefer to be under a clear lid but practically it wouldn't make a huge
difference.

IMHO you're probably better off with a clear canopy + cover + a decent
pair of sunglasses: at least you can change/remove the sunglasses...

The "Perspex" normally used for glider canopies is transparent from
about 350nm and longer wavelengths, which includes part of the UVA band.
There is enough energy in the photons there to cause skin/tissue damage,
so although you might not visibly "burn" as much as in direct sunlight,
it's not at all good for you. I'm a bit sensitive in this respect so for
me high-factor sunblock is a must in a glider. You can get "UV 400"
Perspex which only lets in visible light but I've never heard of a canopy
being made with it (maybe I should ask!)

Well, you didn't really ask, but here is is anyhow...http://www.thermotecusa.com/
Ray Poquette has been making 98% UV blocker canopies of ALL flavors
for along time. Here is a link to his UV canopy chart:http://www.thermotecusa.com/ThermoTe...opy%20Info.htm

-Paul

Due to some interesting medical procedures UV exposure is a "bad
thing" for me. Based on this and the fact we fly higher in the
atmosphere here in Colorado I decided to replace my canopy with one of
Ray Poquette's 98% UV blocking canopies. When I ordered it Ray
talked me into getting a fairly dark brown tint as well. I have
actually been very pleased with it. It does a very nice job of
keeping the cockpit a bit cooler, especially since I tend to fly in
the hotter parts of the west. As noted I find it easier to see my PDA
and I have had no problems seeing my instruments. When I talked to
Ray he thought the tint would "shorten the day" by about 15 min due to
the tint. I think this is pretty accurate. I still wear sunglasses,
but since they don't need to be as dark as before I have a lot more
options on the ones I can use as my eyes have always been a bit
sensitive to bright light.

For a while I had a bit of trouble closing my canopy on hot days. But
I figured out that the new installation was a little tight around the
forward canopy bow. Once I made sure there was a 1/16 inch gap on a
70 degree day with a bit of sanding, I have not had any more
problems. (I do keep a canopy cover on it until I am ready to fly.)

Besides, my daughter thinks my ship looks "really cool" with the dark
canopy

AA

At 14:05 01 August 2008, sisu1a wrote:
On Aug 1, 5:55 am, Ed Downham wrote:
Having flown with a variety of tinted/non-tinted canopies, I would say
that
on an average soaring day they seem to make very little difference to
vision and/or heating. In very low light levels (twilight/dark) I'd
prefer to be under a clear lid but practically it wouldn't make a
huge
difference.

IMHO you're probably better off with a clear canopy + cover + a
decent
pair of sunglasses: at least you can change/remove the sunglasses...

The "Perspex" normally used for glider canopies is transparent from
about 350nm and longer wavelengths, which includes part of the UVA
band.
There is enough energy in the photons there to cause skin/tissue
damage,
so although you might not visibly "burn" as much as in direct
sunlight,
it's not at all good for you. I'm a bit sensitive in this respect so
for
me high-factor sunblock is a must in a glider. You can get "UV 400"
Perspex which only lets in visible light but I've never heard of a
canopy
being made with it (maybe I should ask!)

Well, you didn't really ask, but here is is anyhow...
http://www.thermotecusa.com/
Ray Poquette has been making 98% UV blocker canopies of ALL flavors
for along time. Here is a link to his UV canopy chart:
http://www.thermotecusa.com/ThermoTe...lock%20Canopy%
20Info.htm

-Paul

Thanks Paul,

Interesting. I'm getting a new canopy for next season so will
investigate...

Ed.

Hi,

Below is a photo of an interesting canopy tint. It is a F-22 raptor photo
taken at Oshkosh (not by me). The F-22 seems to have an amber (blue
blocker) tinted canopy. It also appears to be mirrored - but that may or may
not be true.
http://www.avweb.com/newspics/airven...-22_raptor.jpg

P.S. - One of the gliders I owned in the past was a lovely red 1-35c with a
dark tinted canopy. It looked very cool with the tinted canopy. I'm always
in favor of anything that makes a slightly old glider look new and cool. My
best guess on the heating in the cockpit is that the more heating will
happen in the canopy itself that with a clear canopy. The heating in the
canopy should be pulled away by the air passing over it in flight. I do
remember feeling that it was a bit dark in the cockpit when flying under
dark overcast areas of cloud cover, but it was not a problem. I didn't fly
with a PDA back then so I don't know how that would be. I imagine that a
PDA with a powerful backlight like an iPAQ hx4700 would appear brighter
inside the darkened cockpit.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde

"Ed Downham" wrote in message
...
At 14:05 01 August 2008, sisu1a wrote:
On Aug 1, 5:55 am, Ed Downham wrote:
Having flown with a variety of tinted/non-tinted canopies, I would say
that
on an average soaring day they seem to make very little difference to
vision and/or heating. In very low light levels (twilight/dark) I'd
prefer to be under a clear lid but practically it wouldn't make a
huge
difference.

IMHO you're probably better off with a clear canopy + cover + a
decent
pair of sunglasses: at least you can change/remove the sunglasses...

The "Perspex" normally used for glider canopies is transparent from
about 350nm and longer wavelengths, which includes part of the UVA
band.
There is enough energy in the photons there to cause skin/tissue
damage,
so although you might not visibly "burn" as much as in direct
sunlight,
it's not at all good for you. I'm a bit sensitive in this respect so
for
me high-factor sunblock is a must in a glider. You can get "UV 400"
Perspex which only lets in visible light but I've never heard of a
canopy
being made with it (maybe I should ask!)

Well, you didn't really ask, but here is is anyhow...
http://www.thermotecusa.com/
Ray Poquette has been making 98% UV blocker canopies of ALL flavors
for along time. Here is a link to his UV canopy chart:
http://www.thermotecusa.com/ThermoTe...lock%20Canopy%
20Info.htm

-Paul

Thanks Paul,

Interesting. I'm getting a new canopy for next season so will
investigate...

Ed.

Hi Paul.

The effects you see are from the EMI coatings used to keep electromagnetic
emissions from the instruments/displays inside the cockpit. This is part of
the
stealth package. These canopys are multi layered assemblies with lots of
different stuff to do a number of things. On a 777 for instance, the
plastic windows
have integral heaters to keep them from freexing and having degraded
mechanical
properties. In fact, if you lose the window heaters in flight, there is an
aircraft speed limit
applied to keep Q at an acceptable level. There was also a service bulletin
a while
back, because the window heaters would ignite in flight. It was pretty cool
beacause
the event occured between the window panes and you could watch it progress
across the
window.

Scott


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Remde"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 9:26 AM
Subject: canopy tint


Hi,

Below is a photo of an interesting canopy tint. It is a F-22 raptor photo
taken at Oshkosh (not by me). The F-22 seems to have an amber (blue
blocker) tinted canopy. It also appears to be mirrored - but that may or
may not be true.
http://www.avweb.com/newspics/airven...-22_raptor.jpg

P.S. - One of the gliders I owned in the past was a lovely red 1-35c with
a dark tinted canopy. It looked very cool with the tinted canopy. I'm
always in favor of anything that makes a slightly old glider look new and
cool. My best guess on the heating in the cockpit is that the more
heating will happen in the canopy itself that with a clear canopy. The
heating in the canopy should be pulled away by the air passing over it in
flight. I do remember feeling that it was a bit dark in the cockpit when
flying under dark overcast areas of cloud cover, but it was not a problem.
I didn't fly with a PDA back then so I don't know how that would be. I
imagine that a PDA with a powerful backlight like an iPAQ hx4700 would
appear brighter inside the darkened cockpit.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde

Here is a pair of the dark gray canopies made by Ray Poquette of
Thermotec. He made them for one of my Grob 103s about a month ago.
http://www.crosscountrysoaring.com/gpage1.html (scroll to the bottom
of the page where I misspelled his name - dang.)
They were installed beautifully by Fidel at Applebay Aviation in
Moriarty, NM. You can see the before/after effect on the appearance
since it is sitting next to the other Grob with the clear canopies.
There is no question that the tinted canopies are FAR cooler. The tint
seems to be very similar to Serengeti Driver sunglasses. If fact, I
have been taking my Serengetis off when I close the canopy and notice
that my eyes hardly adjust at all. I love them. On the other hand,
when it starts getting cold, as it sometimes does in Minnesota, those
clear canopies are going to start getting more and more air time. :-)
The first day we had over 90 degrees the front canopy did get tight
after sitting in the sun. It was easy to see where the gap had closed
though (front-center and back-center, the longest stretch). Some light
sanding took care of it. I have no problems seeing instruments/LCDs.
And even when I fly right up to sundown, I think the cloud-contrast is
still sharper with the tint - it just looks later than it is, which is
the only downside I have found so far. The tint isn't so dark that
wingrunners can't see your signals either. My 2 cents......

At 03:58 03 August 2008, wrote:

Here is a pair of the dark gray canopies made by Ray Poquette of
Thermotec. He made them for one of my Grob 103s about a month ago.
http://www.crosscountrysoaring.com/gpage1.html (scroll to the bottom
of the page where I misspelled his name - dang.)
They were installed beautifully by Fidel at Applebay Aviation in
Moriarty, NM. You can see the before/after effect on the appearance
since it is sitting next to the other Grob with the clear canopies.
There is no question that the tinted canopies are FAR cooler. The tint
seems to be very similar to Serengeti Driver sunglasses. If fact, I
have been taking my Serengetis off when I close the canopy and notice
that my eyes hardly adjust at all. I love them. On the other hand,
when it starts getting cold, as it sometimes does in Minnesota, those
clear canopies are going to start getting more and more air time. :-)
The first day we had over 90 degrees the front canopy did get tight
after sitting in the sun. It was easy to see where the gap had closed
though (front-center and back-center, the longest stretch). Some light
sanding took care of it. I have no problems seeing instruments/LCDs.
And even when I fly right up to sundown, I think the cloud-contrast is
still sharper with the tint - it just looks later than it is, which is
the only downside I have found so far. The tint isn't so dark that
wingrunners can't see your signals either. My 2 cents......




Yes, they do look good...

I've always fancied a midnight/stealth black glider with a mirror canopy.
That would put the wind up the competition: evil or what!

Maybe leave off the gelcoat and just have carbon.

"Ed Downham" wrote in message
...
At 03:58 03 August 2008, wrote:
Yes, they do look good...

I've always fancied a midnight/stealth black glider with a mirror canopy.
That would put the wind up the competition: evil or what!

Maybe leave off the gelcoat and just have carbon.


At first blush, an intriguing idea. However, there is a fatal flaw. The
black glider would absorb so much heat energy that it would soon become a
mobile thermal trigger. The competition would quickly figure this out and
simply leach along above you, gaining altitude the whole way.

bumper
zz

On Aug 4, 8:15*am, (Doug Hoffman) wrote:
Ed Downham wrote:
Yes, they do look good...

I've always fancied a midnight/stealth black glider with a
mirror canopy.
That would put the wind up the competition: evil or what!

How about oleo struts on the landing gear with an air pump that
raised and lowered the whole glider in sync with a loud boom
shacka lacka from the built in music system loudspeakers. *
Combine that with bright glowing lights from under the fuse. *Get
it all going during roll outs on the ground (take off and
landing). *That would the fear into the competition!

--
Doug

** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**

Don't forget the 22" spinner hubs on that beast :-)

Pete

Ed Downham wrote:

Yes, they do look good...

I've always fancied a midnight/stealth black glider with a
mirror canopy.
That would put the wind up the competition: evil or what!

How about oleo struts on the landing gear with an air pump that
raised and lowered the whole glider in sync with a loud boom
shacka lacka from the built in music system loudspeakers.
Combine that with bright glowing lights from under the fuse. Get
it all going during roll outs on the ground (take off and
landing). That would the fear into the competition!

--
Doug

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **