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Auto Tow Information
Does anyone know of a good publication or web site that discusses the
specifics of auto tow launches. In particular, what type of tow vehicles are appropriate and what release altitudes are possible for various length runways, etc..... Thanks, -- Mike Schumann |
#2
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http://www.soarcsa.org/thinking_page...ng/default.htm
Couple of items here. John Campbell's notes and Reverse Pulley Frank Whiteley |
#3
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Mike:
We've been doing quite a lot of research on the subject as an inexpensive alternative to aerotowing. Everything I have read recommends using a pickup truck like a Ford F-150 or equivilent. One of the best sites we've found to date is http://www.danlj.org/~danlj/Soaring/GroundLaunch/ also get the book "Ground Launches" by Derek Piggott. According to what I've read if all goes right you can expect 70 to 80% of the tow rope length in altitude. We will be using a 6000ft grass runway with a 2000ft rope. So we are hoping to get at least a 1400' launch once we get it worked out. Where are you located? If you would like to contact me direct I can be reached at (remove both of the * to email) email me for my phone number if you wish. Larry Lively, Del Rio, Texas |
#4
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We found it better to use F250 than F150 - larger, more powerful, engine
and transmission give better acceleration, and we figured more likely to be reliable if big engine not working too hard rather than small and going at max output. The last ones we had, in 1988, were fine until we had to stop autotow for other reasons. We went for "Super engine cooling" which incorporates an extra oil cooler for the transmission - launching involves high power at low road speed, and the transmission oil needs all the help it can get. The F250 spec we used in 1988 was: F250 HD 4x2/133 w/base; Omit radio; Regular Cab Custom 7.5L V8; Autotrans; Super engine cooling; Rr step bumper; Spare wheel/tyre/carrier; LPG conversion. With a 4x2, it is important to have the tow hook at the back of the cab, not at the back of the vehicle, so that the cable force does not lift weight off the rear (driving) wheels. It is easier to get good tyre grip with reverse pulley launching, where the cable pull is always horizontal anyway. You need a Tost or similar release to hook the cable on, to allow rapid release in emergency. A window in the roof is advisable. There is a lot to take into account for reverse pulley launching. Straight autotow is easier to equip and start operating. Even with that, you need to follow others' lead in the cable/drogue/weak link/strop set up and hardware, to avoid reinventing it by trial and error. Chris N. (Essex, UK) ========================== __________________________________________________ _________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com |
#5
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At Enstone using parafil, we dispensed with a drogue chute for straight
autotow, to eliminate crosswind drift. XJ6 Jag with Tost release. We swapped ends each launch to speed up launch rate. 60mph each way, 1500agl from 500m length. L-13 lifted the back of the Jag a couple of times, so nice to have ballast in the back seat. Four-wheel disk brakes also helpful at end of tarmac. Personally feel the Cots reverse pulley system was most elegant and effective of auto launch systems I've seen in 30 years, including the Essex GC system. A lot is made of the room required for ground launching. However, I know it is quite feasible to establish a ground launch soaring operation in many areas of the US by leasing, rather than purchasing, space. Dry pasture and dry agricultural land can be leased cheaper per acre than my club pays in property taxes, considering our improvements and the tax basis. In many states, the federal set aside allowance is greater than beef farmers can pay for grazing (leading to an interesting observation by ranchers that they are competing against their own tax dollars for the price of pasture land). Furthermore, a startup ground launch operation is going to encounter far fewer NIMBY objections than aero-towing over the local area. You may find it's possible to winch cheaper than burning up someone's $40,000+ F250 though, and winching doesn't require as much improved land. Frank Whiteley |
#6
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On the topic of tow vehicles for autotow; we operated an autotow only
operation for 10 years from 1970 - 80 just east of Dallas, TX. We used approximately 6000ft of dirt road on the top of a low ridge (50ft elevation). We had our best luck with 10 year old Plymouths ('63 - '66) with the small V8. We got them used for $200 or so and used them for a year to two. For us it did not make much sense to get anything new since the rough road and 50mph speeds beat up suspensions in a year or two, long before the engine was shot. I would be leery of a pickup due to the low weight over the backend. At the top of a tow, it was not unheard of to lift the rear end of our tow vehicle enough to lose traction. We used about 1600ft of polypropolyene rope and could get about 1400ft on a CG hook, and about 800ft on a nose hook. Good luck. Bob On 19 Aug 2005 03:57:04 -0700, "Rusty" wrote: Mike: We've been doing quite a lot of research on the subject as an inexpensive alternative to aerotowing. Everything I have read recommends using a pickup truck like a Ford F-150 or equivilent. One of the best sites we've found to date is http://www.danlj.org/~danlj/Soaring/GroundLaunch/ also get the book "Ground Launches" by Derek Piggott. According to what I've read if all goes right you can expect 70 to 80% of the tow rope length in altitude. We will be using a 6000ft grass runway with a 2000ft rope. So we are hoping to get at least a 1400' launch once we get it worked out. Where are you located? If you would like to contact me direct I can be reached at (remove both of the * to email) email me for my phone number if you wish. Larry Lively, Del Rio, Texas |
#7
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Marc Ramsey wrote:
'It sounds like you are reading too much into the documents in the Winch Design Group file section. In reality, the practical design discussions have all been about two drum winches, mounted on (and obtaining power from) commonly available large pickups or small trucks with 250 to 300 HP turbo diesels. Discussion has slowed for the past few months, as it is soaring season in the northern hemisphere. From a mechanical perspective, the main things that are preventing a couple of groups from 'cutting metal' this fall, are the lack of a source for inexpensive and reliable split-shaft power takeoff units, and a simple workable design for drum clutches. If you or anyone else has any ideas, we'd love to hear them... Marc' No, Marc. most of my reading has been in the messages section. And I guess I need to ask again, does a typical US Operation really need multiple drums? And does a typical US operation really need 250 to 300 HP turbo diesels? If we want this much, it is available from Europe right now. We are not buying them because the initial cost is higher than the initial cost of most towplanes. And some clubs look into renting their towplanes (not those with Pawnees, most likely) for additional income during the off season for trips by members or others. Cannot do that with a winch! For economical launching to take hold in the US, you have to find a way to get the 'buy in' cost down. Multiple drum setups and big, expensive engines just do not accomplish this. Bad information about ground launch safety and high 'buy in' costs are what is keeping it out of the US. If you have the space to do straight auto towing, look in your local paper in the 'Used cars under $600' section. Find one that is really cheap because they don't have the title. Drive it until it drops, then get $25 or $50 from the local salvage yard when you haul it in. You might be surprised at how long it will last. Or, if it just refuses to die, enter it in a local demolishion derby and go buy another! Fly Safe and Have Fun! Steve |
#8
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Steve Leonard wrote:
No, Marc. most of my reading has been in the messages section. And I guess I need to ask again, does a typical US Operation really need multiple drums? Single drum winches have a long launch cycle time, two drums help. That said, two drums do add more mechanical complexity than I (and others) expected. And does a typical US operation really need 250 to 300 HP turbo diesels? Many in the group fly in the western US, where summer density altitudes range up to 10,000 feet. Yes, the numbers I've run indicate that we need at least a 250 HP turbo diesel (not so much for the HP as the torque) to be able to launch something as mundane as a Grob 103 with two aboard. If we want this much, it is available from Europe right now. We are not buying them because the initial cost is higher than the initial cost of most towplanes. Agreed, the point behind the group is to try to substantially reduce the initial cost (over buying new $75,000+ dual drum winches from Europe), by building on a reasonably priced used vehicle readily available here in the US (i.e., heavy duty pickups and light trucks). If you have the space to do straight auto towing, look in your local paper in the 'Used cars under $600' section. Auto tow has its places (but not that many here in the land of high priced real estate), but so does winch launching. What we desperately need is alternatives to aero tow, which if it continues to be the default launch solution, will kill the sport in the US due to fuel/maintenance costs and noise. Marc |
#9
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Single drum turn around time is similar to autotow. If you retrieve
your rope at 15mph, it will take 5+minutes to get the rope back to the launch point on a 6000ft run and another minute to get the tow car back to the other end. Then the launch take up and launch you are talking 10 minute cycles or 6 launches per hour. If you're flying one Blanik, or 5-6 gliders in a small club, this is fine. With parafil, we ran 4-6 minute cycle times. Similar to our single drum winch cycles with a good retrieve driver and launch crew. Cotswold GC with the reverse pulley managed 3-minute launch rates, but that was a club with about 70 gliders and 200 members. They also had a second RP rig and a tow plane (used for those elusive wave days). Now a winch is their primary launch method. Essex GC at one time claimed 90 sec launch intervals with two vehicles on an RP system, but that was not the standard rate. It was a somewhat shorter run the Cotswold. Unless some care is taken with the installation of a Schweizer release, it is possible to get it into a position where it can't release at the tow vehicle, just like in the tow planes. We happened to have a TOST. We knew it would work if fired in anger. The Cotswold RP release is a homebuilt type. It's not an expensive system, but does require someone with machine skills to construct and maintain it. The real plus is that the large diameter 'pulley wheel' doesn't store any substantial energy, unlike some other designs with large wheels. Similarly, it doesn't 'steal' any power to get the launch up and running. Like autotow, it's best suited for 5000-6000ft run, to allow about 1000ft for landback and staging and high performance. You do need a clear safety zone at the pulley end also, in the event of a wire break. There are plenty of Yank tanks out there that could allow a small club with a rope to do plenty of flying on a budget with a small learning curve. So if you're a group of ten with a Blanik and bridle hooks, that's a way forward. But it has it's limitations built in and a club can outgrow it's capacity pretty quickly. I found the linked article about autotow provided earlier in this thread a bit one dimensional and containing some assertions based on ignorance and second hand information about winch launching. An alternative is something like http://www.permiansoaring.us, if you want to grow and make better use of your available space. But there is a lot of difference in what you can ramp up in the near term and aim for in the future. Go for the solution that makes sense, but plan for the next stage. BTW, we eventually took the engine and transmission out of the XJ6 Jag and put it into an ex-ATC winch and converted entirely to winch launching from the parallel turf runway. Why? Because the new owners of the airfield started an ever increasing pattern of annual rent increases for the paved runway. The club had senior rights to the parallel turf run, so abandoned auto tow as an economic imperative. FWIW, the winches gave higher launches over less distance. We used less distance because light single's like K-8's, K-6's, and Oly463's were more subject to adverse wing loading carrying the weight of the steel wire rope if the length were too long and there was also a practical limit to wire capacity of the winch drums. Frank Whiteley |
#10
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Any idea why it isn't done today?
Frank Whiteley |
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