General Zinni on Sixty Minutes

On 01 Jun 2004 10:09:37 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:



Who knew we were being lied to about WMD? We never should have believed that
bum and his neocon liars..

Conveniently overlooking the recent Sarin discovery in Iraq and the
presence of Al-Zawaheri at the beheading of Nick Berg.

If it doesn't fit the perconception simply ignore it.

We all might start at this point by acknowledging that Islamic
fundamentalist terrorism is NOT a national movement. The repetition of
things like "why Iraq" or "the 9/11 perps were all Saudi" ignores the
fact that the terrorists don't represent a particular country but
rather a particular ideology that is inimical to democracy and
Judeo/Christian societies. It isn't Afghanistan or Iraq or Somalia or
Sudan or Yemen or Saudi that is the core threat, it's the
fundamentalist Islamic movement.

A brief review of Samuel Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations" might
be in order.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: (WalterM140)
Date: 6/1/04 4:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Then why were you one of the louder "Yeah, let's do it!" and "Screw the
French for not supporting us" types a year ago?

Brooks



Arthur Kramer


Who knew we were being lied to about WMD? We never should have believed
that
bum and his neocon liars..


A lot of people, including me, supported the war but we were played for
fools.

I was watching "Meet the Press" @ six weeks ago and Tim Russert asked Bremer
to
whom were we turning over control on 30 June.

Bremer's answer:

"That's a good question, Tim."

Five thousand casualties, and that's the answer?

I don't need a general to tell me that the Busihes screwed up.

Art, you were damned lucky to go to war under a great president like FDR.

Walt


I was damn lucky to go to war in a war we all believed in with all our hearts.
This is a war nobody believes in any more. And the liar has been exposed for
what he is. He sends men to fight and die which is something he was never
willing to do.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/1/04 7:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 01 Jun 2004 10:09:37 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:



Who knew we were being lied to about WMD? We never should have believed
that
bum and his neocon liars..

Conveniently overlooking the recent Sarin discovery in Iraq and the
presence of Al-Zawaheri at the beheading of Nick Berg.

If it doesn't fit the perconception simply ignore it.

We all might start at this point by acknowledging that Islamic
fundamentalist terrorism is NOT a national movement. The repetition of
things like "why Iraq" or "the 9/11 perps were all Saudi" ignores the
fact that the terrorists don't represent a particular country but
rather a particular ideology that is inimical to democracy and
Judeo/Christian societies. It isn't Afghanistan or Iraq or Somalia or
Sudan or Yemen or Saudi that is the core threat, it's the
fundamentalist Islamic movement.

A brief review of Samuel Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations" might
be in order.

I think "All Quiet on the Western Front" might be more in order. And as far as
the Sarin goes that is just clutching at straws.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

This is a war nobody believes in any more.


This war is universally supported by informed, intelligent people.



And the liar has been exposed for what he is.


You're referring to Bush, of course. Nobody has identified any Bush
statement about the war to be a lie.



He sends men to fight and die which is something he was never
willing to do.


Bush served in the military voluntarily.

On 01 Jun 2004 14:29:39 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:


I was damn lucky to go to war in a war we all believed in with all our hearts.
This is a war nobody believes in any more. And the liar has been exposed for
what he is. He sends men to fight and die which is something he was never
willing to do.

Arthur Kramer

There are some veterans, educated, and knowledgeable folks who clearly
understand the necessity for this war and the goals that need to be
achieved to develop a sustainable peace in the Middle East and
security in the homeland. You can't generalize your opinion and apply
it wholesale to the world.

What lies? Sarin found last week. Al-Qaeda involved in the beheading
of Nick Berg. Turn-over to the Iraqi provisional goverment by the end
of this month....

As for the willingness to die for the nation, I've got to support a
guy who chose to spend four and a half years becoming an AF pilot and
qualifying operationally in a single-seat, single-engine jet. You may
recall, Art, that tactical aircraft can kill you quite easily on any
given day. Lemme see, four years in jets or four months in
rowboats.....



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

On 01 Jun 2004 14:33:11 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: Ed Rasimus

A brief review of Samuel Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations" might
be in order.

I think "All Quiet on the Western Front" might be more in order. And as far as
the Sarin goes that is just clutching at straws.

Art, we are talking about political facts not classical fiction here.

And, regarding the Sarin, you are proving exactly what I said. If it
doesn't fit your preconception, you'll simply ignore or deny it. No
elephants here, snap, snap, snap.....
Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...

As for the willingness to die for the nation, I've got to support a
guy who chose to spend four and a half years becoming an AF pilot and
qualifying operationally in a single-seat, single-engine jet. You may
recall, Art, that tactical aircraft can kill you quite easily on any
given day. Lemme see, four years in jets or four months in
rowboats.....


Well, his Navy service was more than just those four months he spent on
river boats. But it was four months of a twelve month tour. Why didn't he
complete that tour? The Kerry campaign likes to point out that Kerry
volunteered for Vietnam duty, and that he was awarded three Purple Hearts
while performing that duty. He used those medals, which were awarded under
rather dubious circumstances, to cut short his tour. Why volunteer for
something you don't intend to complete?

Kerry states he was proud to serve in Vietnam every chance he gets. In his
1971 testimony before Congress he stated he committed war crimes in Vietnam.
He gave a short list of atrocities he and others committed. Just what is he
proud of?

If the media had examined Kerry's Vietnam era military service the same way
they examined Bush's, the Democrats would have dropped Vietnam as a campaign
issue months ago.

In message , Ed Rasimus
writes
On 01 Jun 2004 10:09:37 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:
Who knew we were being lied to about WMD? We never should have believed that
bum and his neocon liars..

Conveniently overlooking the recent Sarin discovery in Iraq

One shell, apparently dated pre-1991 - this isn't a clear and present
danger. (The production facility for it would be - no signs so far)

and the
presence of Al-Zawaheri at the beheading of Nick Berg.

Alleged - weren't the killers hooded?

Note also that at one point there was a declared "flypaper strategy" of
using Iraq as bait to draw in and destroy terrorists - was al-Zawaheri
in Iraq before 2003, or did he (or his adherents) go there to kill
Americans post-war?

If it doesn't fit the perconception simply ignore it.

On the other hand, don't latch too solidly onto it just because it's
comfortable.

We all might start at this point by acknowledging that Islamic
fundamentalist terrorism is NOT a national movement. The repetition of
things like "why Iraq" or "the 9/11 perps were all Saudi" ignores the
fact that the terrorists don't represent a particular country but
rather a particular ideology that is inimical to democracy and
Judeo/Christian societies.

However, the al-Qaeda movement in particular and the Wahabbi ideology in
general are both solidly based in and funded from Saudi Arabia. (Where
al-Qaeda terrorists are still operating)

A brief review of Samuel Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations" might
be in order.

So you attack fundamentalist Islam by invading one of the more secular
states in the Middle East? Does not compute...

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: General Zinni on Sixty Minutes
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 6/1/04 7:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 01 Jun 2004 10:09:37 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:



Who knew we were being lied to about WMD? We never should have believed
that
bum and his neocon liars..

Conveniently overlooking the recent Sarin discovery in Iraq and the
presence of Al-Zawaheri at the beheading of Nick Berg.

If it doesn't fit the perconception simply ignore it.

We all might start at this point by acknowledging that Islamic
fundamentalist terrorism is NOT a national movement. The repetition of
things like "why Iraq" or "the 9/11 perps were all Saudi" ignores the
fact that the terrorists don't represent a particular country but
rather a particular ideology that is inimical to democracy and
Judeo/Christian societies. It isn't Afghanistan or Iraq or Somalia or
Sudan or Yemen or Saudi that is the core threat, it's the
fundamentalist Islamic movement.

A brief review of Samuel Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations" might
be in order.

I think "All Quiet on the Western Front" might be more in order. And as
far as
the Sarin goes that is just clutching at straws.

Oh, boy, another, "It is not WMD unless it meets my (ever changing)
definition of the *amount* required!" advocate, eh? I guess you will also
disregard the reported find of another chemical round (yet to be finally
verified, AFAIK) a week earlier (a mustard round that time), not to mention
Kay's final testimony that the Iraqis were in violation of Res 687 in
numerous ways, to include continuing to work on development of ricin (a
biotoxin) right up until we hit them? Ed's dead-on-target--you are going to
disregard anything that does not fit into your preconceived framework of
"Bush is evil".

Brooks



Arthur Kramer

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...

(Snip)

How about considering that we are quick to disavow the outrageous behavior of a
handful of our sadistic jailers as being representative of us as a nation, but
we deny the Iraqis the same right to disavow the existence of a single artillery
shell of dubious age filled with Sarin as being representative of an arsenal of
WMDs they would have used on us if they had existed.

One sadistic jailer doesn't mean that all of our jailers are sadistic any more
than one Sarin-filled artillery shell means that all of the artillery shells the
Iraqis had were filled with Sarin. It took us a whole year to find (or 'fess up
to) one of each.

George Z.