Night flying times

How about "if it is dark out, it is night"? That is what most pilots
use anyway. Or don't define it at all. Just call it night. People know
what night is. The amount of darkness at night varies quite a bit, BTW.
We all know that too. No moon, no snow, no city lights, yeah that's
DARK. And a lit runway in such an environment can present problems you
don't have in a city, with a moon and lots of nearby lighting.

Doug wrote:
How about "if it is dark out, it is night"? That is what most pilots
use anyway. Or don't define it at all. Just call it night. People know
what night is. The amount of darkness at night varies quite a bit, BTW.
We all know that too. No moon, no snow, no city lights, yeah that's
DARK. And a lit runway in such an environment can present problems you
don't have in a city, with a moon and lots of nearby lighting.

I would like to use the casual definition, but it won't hold up in court
after an accident. Your own insurance company will want to split hairs.

Stubby wrote:
Doug wrote:

How about "if it is dark out, it is night"? That is what most pilots
use anyway. Or don't define it at all. Just call it night. People know
what night is. The amount of darkness at night varies quite a bit, BTW.
We all know that too. No moon, no snow, no city lights, yeah that's
DARK. And a lit runway in such an environment can present problems you
don't have in a city, with a moon and lots of nearby lighting.


I would like to use the casual definition, but it won't hold up in court
after an accident. Your own insurance company will want to split hairs.


How would this come up in court? If I had an accident at night, with a
passenger, and my insurance company disputed my night currency, how
could they dispute my log entries which demonstrated my currency? I DO
maintain night currency, I log it, but I do not log the timestamp of
when the takeoffs/landings took place.

Bruce Riggs writes:

How would this come up in court? If I had an accident at night, with a
passenger, and my insurance company disputed my night currency, how
could they dispute my log entries which demonstrated my currency?

GPS logs (in my case, at least, and I suspect in others), rental records,
radio tapes, ...

But would they? I asked a long time ago about people logging night
take-offs and only got one person who claimed to do it and a bunch of
"well, it'll probably never be an issue" kind of responses.

--kyler

In article ,
Stubby wrote:

There is confusion in regard to which "twilight" times are used to
define night flying. What would be wrong with a change to the FARs that
say something like "Flight occuring an hour after GPS-indicated sunset
time and an hour before GPS-indicated sunrise is defined as night
flying"? (The standard exception for Alaska must be included...)

1) not everyone has GPS

2) why not use the sunrise/sunset times provided by US Naval Observatory?
(some means will need to be provided for those without internet access)

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

Bob Noel wrote:
2) why not use the sunrise/sunset times provided by US Naval Observatory?
(some means will need to be provided for those without internet access)

what about asking the question to the briefer on 1-800-WXBRIEF as
part of your weather briefing / flight plan filing?

ok, now we'll have to take care of those without telephone access :-)

--Sylvain

Bob Noel wrote:
In article ,
Stubby wrote:


There is confusion in regard to which "twilight" times are used to
define night flying. What would be wrong with a change to the FARs that
say something like "Flight occuring an hour after GPS-indicated sunset
time and an hour before GPS-indicated sunrise is defined as night
flying"? (The standard exception for Alaska must be included...)


1) not everyone has GPS
There is no need for a pilot to actual own a GPS. He can look at a
friend's or one at the FBO, etc. But for the price of an hour of
instruction, anyone can purchase his very own GPS. Or, the FAA could
put up a web page with GPS sunrise and sunset times on it.

2) why not use the sunrise/sunset times provided by US Naval Observatory?
(some means will need to be provided for those without internet access)

Or, the FAA could put up a web page with GPS sunrise and sunset times on
it.

You mean like this one?:

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/aa_pap.pl


"Stubby" wrote in message
...
Bob Noel wrote:
In article ,
Stubby wrote:


There is confusion in regard to which "twilight" times are used to define
night flying. What would be wrong with a change to the FARs that say
something like "Flight occuring an hour after GPS-indicated sunset time
and an hour before GPS-indicated sunrise is defined as night flying"?
(The standard exception for Alaska must be included...)


1) not everyone has GPS
There is no need for a pilot to actual own a GPS. He can look at a
friend's or one at the FBO, etc. But for the price of an hour of
instruction, anyone can purchase his very own GPS. Or, the FAA could put
up a web page with GPS sunrise and sunset times on it.

2) why not use the sunrise/sunset times provided by US Naval
Observatory?
(some means will need to be provided for those without internet access)

Carl Orton wrote:

You mean like this one?:
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/aa_pap.pl


You actually need to start he
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.html

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

Stubby wrote:

There is no need for a pilot to actual own a GPS. He can look at a
friend's or one at the FBO, etc. But for the price of an hour of
instruction, anyone can purchase his very own GPS. Or, the FAA could
put up a web page with GPS sunrise and sunset times on it.

AFAIK there is no generally agreed upon "GPS sunrise". I'm guessing each GPS
manufacture has its own proprietary algorithm for determining sunrise/sunset.
That's fine for casual use, but I imagine regulation writers are looking for
something more standard.