Madness

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
I agree with Dudley that this is an isolated case and should be treated as
such. I have a great deal of faith in this country and I think that
eventually a lot of these imbalances will get evened out.

However, I do think it is worthwhile paying attention to incidents like
this. First of all, we do not want through our silence to allow others to
believe that this is acceptable or normal behavior. America may be
basically
self correcting, but it will not be self correcting if we just stand by
and
let things like this happen. Ridicule, scorn, protest, or whatever other
activities that you can do to register that this incident is wrong, we
don't
want any more incidents like this, and that we don't want to go any
further
down this road are entirely appropriate.

Well said, CJ. I'm pleased to find a point on which you and I are in full
agreement. :-)

--Gary

Jeb wrote:

A few days later, Olearcek was alarmed to discover a state trooper
flashing a torch into to her home through a sliding glass door at 8:30
pm on a rainy night.

I would be marching that trooper into my house with his hands on his head at the
end of a 12 gauge shotgun, calling the police, and having him charged with trespass.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

"John Galban" wrote in message
om...

For example, if my neighbor is building a homebuilt in his garage, I
can have the cops there within a few hours to check him out. Sadly,
this is not the America of a few years ago. We are a jittery,
frightened society now, and the terrorists are sitting in their caves
laughing their asses off.


As horrific as 9/11 was (and I was there), it was not militarily
significant. Except to the terrorist organizations who felt, and will be
feeling, the brunt of a very powerful military. Some sanity has to return
to government and how they respond to threats. In short, we need strong
leadership, and by that I don't mean some administration deciding to invade
this or that country.

They would hang you out to dry, the way things are going now.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Jeb wrote:

A few days later, Olearcek was alarmed to discover a state trooper
flashing a torch into to her home through a sliding glass door at 8:30
pm on a rainy night.

I would be marching that trooper into my house with his hands on his head
at the
end of a 12 gauge shotgun, calling the police, and having him charged with
trespass.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually
said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

John Galban wrote:

Unfortunately, I think that you'll find that the cops these days are
caught up in a "cover your ass" mentality when it comes to terrorist
related calls.

Yeah, but the ones in my neighborhood walk up to the front door, ring the bell,
explain the situation (usually apologetically), and ask for information.

You know, like people are supposed to behave?

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

C J Campbell wrote:

That might be fun, except that the trooper might be inclined to defend
himself.

Oh, I never said it was a good idea - it's just what *I* would do (if my wife
didn't stop me). I have never been known for my even tempered nature.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

We stopped at Staples in Silverdale tonight. I asked the clerk if she had
received any kidding about the Staples "Flight Simulator" story and she said
it had been non-stop all day. I have no doubt that every clerk working for
Staples anywhere in the good old USA has heard this story a dozen times. The
kids do try to be good-natured about it.

in article , Video Guy at gkasten at brick
dot net wrote on 1/12/04 11:51 AM:


"Philip Sondericker" wrote in message
...
in article , Jeb at
wrote on 1/10/04 10:35 AM:


So alarmed was the Staples clerk at the prospect of the ten year old
learning to fly, that he informed the police, the Greenfield Recorder
reports.

Well, I think it's a safe bet that I'd be picketing that store about 5
minutes after the cops visited. And if I thought I could get away with it,
I'd beat the **** out of that snoopy clerk. I hate people like that.


As a former cop- and admittedly proud American, I'd like to put this into a
slightly different perspective.

Obviously this Staples incident is distressing IF it really happened-- I
haven't found the supporting docs yet. Assuming the story has veracity,
then what the Hell is wrong with the cops!? It understandable that the
store management and the clerk who likely have little or no training in
security, could consider such an innocuous request as some kind of security
threat. But I ask again. WHAT ABOUT THE COPS!!?

Surely this "security violation" had to go through some sort of chain of
command at the police department before an individual officer was sent to
these folks home. What was THEIR thought process, if any? I find far more
fault with the police in this matter than the Staples store. (Remember
please- NOT a cop hater speaking here.)

These are good points. Since when do the cops respond to every two-bit
complaint they get? Just listening to my scanner I know that they don't have
the resources for that.

Additionally, going to the store to picket or "... beat the **** out of that
snoopy clerk" seems like a ridiculous response.

Okay, my reaction was more emotional than rational, I'll admit. Still, the
whole notion of snooping and spying by Americans on other Americans
distresses me. Particularly since we've been through it before.

Possibly, a letter of
concern to Staples corporate office, and maybe a similar letter to the
editor of the local newspaper might be more effective. If we are to protect
GA (and all of our other liberties), we must be vigilant but reasonable in
our responses to these incursions away from sanity. Otherwise, we'll never
be able to get enough mainstream support to realize the balance we need
between security and freedom.

Unbridled passion, while useful in certain circumstances g often adds more
heat than light.

I feel better. How about you?

VideoGuy

Well, sure. On the other hand, if that incident had happened to ME, and I
didn't have you around to cool me off, I'd have gone to that store and
beaten the **** out of that clerk.

"Philip Sondericker" wrote in message
...
in article , Video Guy at gkasten at
brick
dot net wrote on 1/12/04 11:51 AM:
[snip]

Okay, my reaction was more emotional than rational, I'll admit. Still, the
whole notion of snooping and spying by Americans on other Americans
distresses me. Particularly since we've been through it before.

You are not alone here. We are still in the "hysteria phase" of learning to
cope with 9/11. Nearly everyone reacts emotionally to some part of the
attacks and the aftermath. It's still confusing to a lot of us who don't
understand the reasons why these things happened. I put those who are
charged with preventing another incident in this category too. We're ALL
confused. The ONLY thing we as Americans can do is understand that WE are
not the enemy, and we must not let ourselves BECOME the enemy. So with that
I'm in complete agreement with you about being distressed by the snooping.

Possibly, a letter of
concern to Staples corporate office, and maybe a similar letter to the
editor of the local newspaper might be more effective. If we are to
protect
GA (and all of our other liberties), we must be vigilant but reasonable
in
our responses to these incursions away from sanity. Otherwise, we'll
never
be able to get enough mainstream support to realize the balance we need
between security and freedom.


Well, sure. On the other hand, if that incident had happened to ME, and I
didn't have you around to cool me off, I'd have gone to that store and
beaten the **** out of that clerk.

Are you sure that the clerk is the "bad guy" in any of this? Admittedly, he
instigated the situation, But it traveled through a group of people, who
ALL should have exercised much better judgment. Seems like they ALL failed.
Probably the clerk and the cop who was ultimately the one sent to the house
are the two least culpable.

Of course, that's just the way I see it. YMMV

VideoGuy

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 08:13:19 -0800 "C J Campbell" wrote:


"R.Hubbell" wrote in message
...
| On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 20:29:37 -0800 "C J Campbell"
wrote:
|
|
| "R.Hubbell" wrote in message |
| |
| | So if you're not afraid and suspicious of our own government then you
must
| | be very naive or conveniently ignorant. As far as I can tell the only
| | people that like Bush and Co. are the very rich. Anyone else is naive
or
| | a fool if they think this admin. is doing them any good. If you're
under
| | $500,000/yr you are taking it you-know-where. Have a close look at
AMT if
| | you are in disbelief. If you like your money you can't like Bush and
Co.
| |
| |
|
|
| I'll try to respond to this but you didn't offer up much in the way of a
| counterpoint.
|
| Fantasy. Pure fantasy. The vast majority of Bush supporters make far
less
|
| What part is fantasy to you?
|
| Define a Bush supporter? Is that one who votes for him or who donates
lots
| of money to his campaign? If you're a Bush voter you're getting the
shaft.
|
|
| than $500,000 per year. It would be interesting to know how you came up
with
| this idiotic theory.
|
| You're awfully quick to throw insults, must have touched a nerve.

Well, since you are the one saying that everyone who supports Bush is either
fantastically wealthy or a dupe, maybe you should look at the insulting tone
of your own posts.


Not meant to be insulting. It happens to be the case that Bush's "plan"
doesn't do much for you unless you're very rich. So if you're not very
rich and you're supporting him you're fooling yourself.


|
| The vast majority of Bush supporters (the ones donating to his campaign)
| are making $500,000/year (dispensible income not disposable as the rich
| pay very little taxes) and if you're making under $500,000/yr you're very
| likely paying the way for those Bush donors.

You still have not offered one shred of evidence in support of this
statement.



The evidence is that they are happily hiding most (close to all, but not quite
all) of their income. They pay taxes on a very small portion of the money they
make while you and I are paying lots of taxes and reporting most if not all of
our income. There's a little wiggle room for the middle class but nowhere near
the wiggle room the ultra rich have.


R. Hubbell