filing IFR plan for VFR flight conditions

If you dont take their "recommended vector" they can terminate your
radar services arbitrarily under the "workload" clause.

If you want flight following, you have to play ball.

Dave

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

wrote in message
...

I've recently had a discussion with my A&P/IA about this. He
routinely hops in his turbo arrow, and flies from Virginia to Key
West VFR at 11000' without talking to a soul.



A violation of FAR 91.159(a).



Right over top of Class-C and Class-B. What he says, (and I tend
to agree with him anymore), is if you talk to them, even if you're clear
of their airspace, they'll try to route you over hell and gone.



Possibly an error on ATC's part over the top of Class C airspace, definitely
an error on their part over Class B airspace.



Having flown under and over Chicago's airspace, a number of
times, you find this more often than not. Rather than encouraging
the additional safety of flight following, this really discourages
working with the approach controllers. Same thing talking with
Milwaukee approach every time I've gone up there. I'm coming
lakeshore from the south, planning to go just outside of their Class-C
on my way in to Capitol, also just outside their Class-C. If I talk
to them, they'll route me 10 miles to the west, every time... even
without traffic conflict.



Class C services are provided to participating VFR traffic in the outer area
just as they are in the Class C proper, but without conflicting IFR traffic
they have no basis upon which to move you.

"Dave S" wrote in message
link.net...

If you dont take their "recommended vector" they can terminate your
radar services arbitrarily under the "workload" clause.


How so? Declining a suggested vector doesn't affect their workload.



If you want flight following, you have to play ball.


When the controller does things contrary to established procedures it's
clear he's not a sharp troop. How useful is flight following from such
controllers?

"Dave S" wrote in message
link.net...



The occasions that I have departed from towered fields in the HOU
terminal airspace, I have only recieved a local (tower or Tracon) code
with regards to VFR flight following. Never a center code, even when
they know you are heading out of bounds. The drill is "get terminated,
call up the center in a few miles"

We do this as standard procedure because that's what people want. We have
found that virtually nobody wants center flight following, less than 5% ask
for it, whether on the ground before departure or in the air.

We have
found that virtually nobody wants center flight following, less than 5% ask
for it, whether on the ground before departure or in the air.


If somebody calls asking for center flight following, do you still assume they
dont' want it?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

We have
found that virtually nobody wants center flight following, less than 5%
ask
for it, whether on the ground before departure or in the air.


If somebody calls asking for center flight following, do you still assume
they
dont' want it?

Nope, then we'll give you a center code and hand you off to the center. But
you have to ask for it. Simply telling me your destination, which happens
to be a long way away, won't do it.

Nope, then we'll give you a center code and hand you off to the center.
But
you have to ask for it. Simply telling me your destination, which happens
to be a long way away, won't do it.

What if you saw someone pop up out of Columbia Missouri, heading East. They
call you up and inform you they want VFR flight following to Wichita KS.
What exactly would you say to him? ;-()

"Dave S" wrote:
In a 2.4 hour jaunt today from the houston area, to
north of Beaumont and back, I heard a military fighter
jock miss a turn-in call and I also heard a corporate
miss theirs as well.

Well, that'll happen to the best of us! What really makes me cringe is
a pilot forcing a controller to play "20 Questions," as in this exchange
I heard passing New Orleans one day:

"New Orleans approach, Cessna [blocked]."
"Cessna calling New Orleans say again."
"Cessna 1234P."
"Cessna 1234P, say request."
"Uh, Cessna 1234P is with you and we would like flight following."
"Cessna 1234P, say your type aircraft, location, destination and cruise
altitude."
[long pause, with nearly audible sound of controller's foot tapping]
"Cessna 1234P is is coming from Reserve at 1,400."
"Cessna 1234P, say destination and cruise altitude."
"Uh, we're going to Picayune."
[etc., etc.]

New Orleans is the most easygoing of the Class Bs I frequent, and the
long-suffering controller handled this guy with saintly patience, but
this kind of thing is what makes VFR aircraft 2nd-class citizens in the
eyes of many controllers.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"Bill Gamelson" wrote in message
. com...
Nope, then we'll give you a center code and hand you off to the center.
But
you have to ask for it. Simply telling me your destination, which
happens
to be a long way away, won't do it.

What if you saw someone pop up out of Columbia Missouri, heading East.
They
call you up and inform you they want VFR flight following to Wichita KS.
What exactly would you say to him? ;-()



Flight following are the magic words. I work at a class C, you will get a
transponder code when you depart VFR. But unless you specifically say you
want flight following you will be terminated at 20 miles.

Flight following are the magic words. I work at a class C, you will get a
transponder code when you depart VFR. But unless you specifically say you
want flight following you will be terminated at 20 miles.

Yea, I know. Obviously you didn't catch that goof. A plane takes off out
of Columbia Missouri and heads 090 and then asks for flight following to
Wichita KS which is 270. I though you would catch it. I was embarrased
when the controller said "Well I'd be happy to...but..there's something I
can't quite understand....[10-15 second pause]...I'll tell you what, turn
heading 270 and that should get you to Wichita." I was so embarrased I know
I literally double-backed on his screen!

Dave S wrote:
: If you dont take their "recommended vector" they can terminate your
: radar services arbitrarily under the "workload" clause.

: If you want flight following, you have to play ball.

Right... my original point refers to controllers who categorically vector
any VFR traffic that chooses to talk to them from their current position outside the
controlled airspace to a position even more outside of the controlled airspace. I
would think controllers would prefer anyone within the area to be in communication
with them and not penalize those VFR folk who chose to play by vectoring them around.
It's safer for everyone to be in communication and close to somebody else than to be
just as close without communication.

-Cory


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