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tso altimeter



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 7th 10, 11:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Smith
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Posts: 195
Default tso altimeter

jcarlyle wrote:
This descriptor (TS 10.220/xx) is only used in DG and Stemme
flight manuals, as far as I can tell.


No. It's a LBA (the German FOCA) thing. I have no idea whether and how
this has changed with EASA.

In the mean time, I've learnt that the correct English name of the paper
is "Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS)", and the number is called
"Approval Number". If the device ist TSOed, then that TSO should be
found on that sheet.

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  #22  
Old December 8th 10, 01:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jcarlyle
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Posts: 522
Default tso altimeter

I think something is getting lost in translation.

I've never heard of a TCDS being used for anything other than
aircraft, and I cannot find a TCDS on the web that doesn't apply to an
aircraft (except in the LS8 manual I cited above). Also, a TSO doesn't
apply to an aircraft, just instruments. Lastly, the Approval Number
format we're dealing with here, 10.220/xx, doesn't fit the format of
the numbers used for European TDCS for aircraft found in Europe. For
example, the LS8 had a TCDS under the LBA of 402, under EASA it is now
A.047.

Something doesn't make sense.

-John

On Dec 7, 6:43 pm, John Smith wrote:
No. It's a LBA (the German FOCA) thing. I have no idea whether and how
this has changed with EASA.

In the mean time, I've learnt that the correct English name of the paper
is "Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS)", and the number is called
"Approval Number". If the device ist TSOed, then that TSO should be
found on that sheet.


  #23  
Old December 8th 10, 03:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jcarlyle
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Posts: 522
Default tso altimeter

A little progress. First, John Smith is correct - the designator TS
10.220/xx is indeed an LBA thing, and it appears to still be in use.
Here's a list of the categories:
http://www2.lba.de/dokumente/zuger/r...tand%20neu.pdf

Category 4 is for Sailplanes, which is he http://www2.lba.de/dokumente/zuger/04-segel.pdf
Note the September 2010 issue date. Note also the form of the number
in the first column, this really is a TCDS number.

Category 12 is for Flight and Navigation Instruments, which is he
http://www2.lba.de/dokumente/zuger/12-1-navgeraete.pdf
Note the form of the number in the first column, it appears to me to
not be a TCDS but rather a TS number. Technical Specification, maybe?
Unfortunately, the 10.220/48 designator for the Winter altimeter in
question isn't in this list - don't know why.

I picked another number, 10.220/40, for a United altimeter which I
know is in production, but I had no luck in finding the text for this
TS document on the Web. So at this time its still unclear if the a LBA
TS will link back to a TSO.

-John
  #24  
Old December 8th 10, 09:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Smith
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Posts: 195
Default tso altimeter

jcarlyle wrote:
I picked another number, 10.220/40, for a United altimeter which I
know is in production, but I had no luck in finding the text for this
TS document on the Web. So at this time its still unclear if the a LBA
TS will link back to a TSO.


I tried this a couple of years ago with a turn indicator. (Actually,
that's why I know about it.) When I asked, the LBA said that those
sheets are not on the web, and they sent me a PDF.
  #25  
Old December 8th 10, 12:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy[_1_]
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Posts: 1,565
Default tso altimeter

On Dec 7, 12:14*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:

Bzzzttt I've got to shoot myself here for getting missing the critical
regulation....


I hope you are healing but the abuse may not have been justified.

The full text of 14 CFR 91.217 is as follows:

"§ 91.217 Data correspondence between automatically reported
pressure altitude data and the pilot's altitude reference.

(a) No person may operate any automatic pressure altitude reporting
equipment associated with a radar beacon transponder—

(1) When deactivation of that equipment is directed by ATC;

(2) Unless, as installed, that equipment was tested and calibrated to
transmit altitude data corresponding within 125 feet (on a 95 percent
probability basis) of the indicated or calibrated datum of the
altimeter normally used to maintain flight altitude, with that
altimeter referenced to 29.92 inches of mercury for altitudes from sea
level to the maximum operating altitude of the aircraft; or

(3) Unless the altimeters and digitizers in that equipment meet the
standards of TSO-C10b and TSO-C88, respectively.

(b) No person may operate any automatic pressure altitude reporting
equipment associated with a radar beacon transponder or with ADS–B Out
equipment unless the pressure altitude reported for ADS–B Out and Mode
C/S is derived from the same source for aircraft equipped with both a
transponder and ADS–B Out."


Note that (a)( 3) is "or-ed" with condition (a)(2). Also note that
for a glider no altimeter is used to maintain flight altitude since
maintaining flight altitude is not a requirement for gliders.

I would conclude that 91.217 imposes no requirement for the altimeter
to be TSO C10b compliant. If the OP can't argue that the altimeter is
not used to maintain flight altitude then a correspondence check with
a non TSO certified altimeter will meet the requirement of 14 CR
91.217 (a)(2). The correspondence check only needs to be done to the
"maximum operating altitude of the aircraft" which may be defined for
the OP's motor glider but isn't for any unpowered glider.

I would further argue that, if there is no requirement to maintain
flight altitude, then the altimeter is not part of the automatic
pressure altitude reporting equipment. If this is accepted then the
only requirement left from 14 CFR 91.217 is that the encoder is TSO
C88b compliant. That's a no brainer since they all are.

It's much easier to install the equipment yourself than argue the
regulations with someone you pay to do the work for you!

Andy
 




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