Mild Aerobatics

A friend has a 182 and we have rolled that many times. Another buddy
has a Baron and we have rolled that many times. Yet another friend has
a Super Cub and I have gotten fairly proficient at rolling and looping
that. In my plane I frequently take it up and go power at idle, full
back stick and hold a 45 degree bank. I have VG's so the plane will not
roll over into the raised wing, just sits there and falls at about 1500
fpm. This helps to keep my ass current in flying the plane. I try and
make about half my landings from about a mile or mile and a half final
at a few mph above stall without looking at the airspeed indicator.



Jay Honeck wrote:

During primary training, many moons ago, I was growing frustrated with the
sedate nature of our flying, so I asked my flight instructor (Bob -- a guy
with 20K hours in every known flying machine) when we were going to get to
the "fun stuff"? He didn't know what I was talking about, so I told him I
wanted to see what these things could actually *do*...

At which point he smiled that crooked smile of his, and proceeded to do a
wing-over with a recovery out the bottom, going the opposite direction! I
was whooping and hollering for more, but he just went back to our lesson for
the day....

Nowadays, Mary and I are very cautious in our Pathfinder, rarely exceeding
45 degree banks, and never pulling more than mild G turns. Mary hates steep
banks (except in a Super Decathlon -- then all bets are off!), and the most
rambunctious thing we ever do are "Up-Downs" (as the kids call them), which
is a firm pull up with a steady push-over at the top that induces negative
Gs in the back seat.

Just curious -- what do you guys do with your spam cans? I've seen video
from inside a Cessna that shows a guy doing some pretty radical maneuvers,
but in real life what's the most you push your aircraft?

Jay,

Sounds like it's time for you to get your Commercial ticket. Not that
you need it for the type of flying you do, but at least you can learn
and become proficient with some new maneuvers like Chandelles, Lazy
eights, turns on pylons, accuracy landings, etc without hurting Atlas.
Also, you are certainly receptive to learning more about flying, so why
not study for the Commercial written in your spare time and expand you
"database"? I think you'll find it very enjoyable since you can do it
on your own time. You'll find the commercial ticket is fun and
"relative" easy to achive. And heck, your insurance rates might come
down as a result too??

Best,

Bryan

Jay Honeck wrote:

During primary training, many moons ago, I was growing frustrated with the
sedate nature of our flying, so I asked my flight instructor (Bob -- a guy
with 20K hours in every known flying machine) when we were going to get to
the "fun stuff"? He didn't know what I was talking about, so I told him I
wanted to see what these things could actually *do*...

At which point he smiled that crooked smile of his, and proceeded to do a
wing-over with a recovery out the bottom, going the opposite direction! I
was whooping and hollering for more, but he just went back to our lesson for
the day....

Nowadays, Mary and I are very cautious in our Pathfinder, rarely exceeding
45 degree banks, and never pulling more than mild G turns. Mary hates steep
banks (except in a Super Decathlon -- then all bets are off!), and the most
rambunctious thing we ever do are "Up-Downs" (as the kids call them), which
is a firm pull up with a steady push-over at the top that induces negative
Gs in the back seat.

Just curious -- what do you guys do with your spam cans? I've seen video
from inside a Cessna that shows a guy doing some pretty radical maneuvers,
but in real life what's the most you push your aircraft?

"Newps" wrote in message
...

A friend has a 182 and we have rolled that many times. Another buddy has a
Baron and we have rolled that many times. Yet another friend has a Super
Cub and I have gotten fairly proficient at rolling and looping that.

"In nomine Patris et fillii et Spiritus Sancti........"
:-)

Dudley Henriques

"In nomine Patris et fillii et Spiritus Sancti........"
:-)

Another guy who was forced to attend Catholic church for many years a child,
I see?

:-)

Or, as we used to say, "Oh feeley me boney, dominos nabisco..."

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay:

One one of your trips eastward stop by Waukesha. I can arrange a ride in a
Stearman or Yak owned by my friends (might even be able to arrange a ride in
a mustang).

You are always welcome to go up with me in the Extra. Send me an email
offline and let me know about your schedule.

JN

We were climbing out, so our airspeed was relatively low -- probably
around
80 knots. The entire maneuver lasted less than 5 seconds, and nothing
floated in the cockpit -- but in an old airplane, how much is too much?

If nothing floated you didn't even reach zero g, let alone negative g's.
You had a long way to go before risking overstressing anything.

Rod

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:7kLKe.239817$x96.9166@attbi_s72...

snip

After a few more seconds of debate, I ended the discussion by pushing my
yoke firmly forward, inducing negative G and allowing us to pass
harmlessly beneath the traffic. We cleared the plane with room to spare.

snip
However, I did (and still) wonder about putting that much negative-G on
our 34 year old airframe. Without a G meter it's impossible to know how
much G was induced, but I'd say it was 50% more than I've ever done
before. (The only negative G maneuver I ever do is the push-over at the
top of a steep pull-up, known by my kids as an "Up-Down".) Was 50% more
too much?

We were climbing out, so our airspeed was relatively low -- probably
around 80 knots. The entire maneuver lasted less than 5 seconds, and
nothing floated in the cockpit -- but in an old airplane, how much is too
much?

As another reference point (and a crude way of measuring the negative Gs),
I routinely read about guys doing the "up-down" maneuver to the point
where their engine sputters due to fuel starvation. I've *never* done the
maneuver to that degree, even in this situation (although that may be due
to the short duration of the maneuver) -- so I'm assuming that I didn't
push the airframe beyond structural limits. Since that flight I've
carefully inspected the empennage, and there is obviously no visible
stress or strain, or I wouldn't be flying it -- but how can you really
know without extensive metallurgic testing?

snip
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Is the engine on the pathfinder carburated? If so, the engine will stumble
anywhere near zero g. In addition, since you didn't see anything "flying"
inside the cockpit, my guess is that you merely approached zero g, which
isn't a problem at all.

KB

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:9rRKe.18168$084.15176@attbi_s22...
"In nomine Patris et fillii et Spiritus Sancti........"
:-)

Another guy who was forced to attend Catholic church for many years a
child, I see?

:-)

A Parochial live in military academy for boys no less; run by the Sisters of
the Immaculate Heart.
With a name like Dudley Arthur Henriques the Third, by the time I made the
fifth grade I had to either be the toughest or the fastest kid in school.
Fortunately for me, I was a little of both :-))
D

Jay Honeck wrote:

However, I did (and still) wonder about putting that much negative-G on our
34 year old airframe. Without a G meter it's impossible to know how much G
was induced, but I'd say it was 50% more than I've ever done before. (The
only negative G maneuver I ever do is the push-over at the top of a steep
pull-up, known by my kids as an "Up-Down".) Was 50% more too much?

Jay,

As others have pointed out, you alomst certainly didn't hit much
negative g or you'd really know it. A full negative 1 g would result
in you hitting the straps firmly, loose objects flying all around
inside of the airplane, and a dust storm you can't imagine from the
carpet in a 'clean' airplane (trust me on that one). Negative 2 takes
work. Negative 3 *hurts*.

Think about it this way: when you unloaded the wing the airplane's
primary structure was actually under less stress than it had been while
cruising along straight-n-level... it was no longer carrying any
weight! I don't know what the loads on the tail are when you push
over, but I'm betting that they're not that much, either.

No fears.... Atlas remains trustworthy.

-Dave Russell
N2S-3

In article 7kLKe.239817$x96.9166@attbi_s72,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:


However, I did (and still) wonder about putting that much negative-G on our
34 year old airframe. Without a G meter it's impossible to know how much G
was induced, but I'd say it was 50% more than I've ever done before. (The
only negative G maneuver I ever do is the push-over at the top of a steep
pull-up, known by my kids as an "Up-Down".) Was 50% more too much?



I doubt you had the negative G's you thought you had...

Trained military pilots start 'redding out' at negative 2 to 2.5 Gs and
anything more than negative 1.5 is quite uncomfortable

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD
Capt, 110th Fighter Michigan ANG
University of Michigan Hospitals
Ann Arbor, MI