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#11
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Stop Making Sense
Well, at least he told us he intended to stop making sense with the subject
line. "Bret Ludwig" wrote in message oups.com... Light aircraft are not a business tool. There is _no such thing_ as a rational purchase of a light airplane. It's a heinously expensive toy that will likely be a financial disaster no matter what. Don't go 95% broke buying an unfulfilling spam can. Buy what you want, which if you have anything but air you-know-where is probably aerobatic and may well have a big round oil-puking engine. Wichita nearly killed itself with BULL**** and FRAUD selling their product as non-toys at a time in the Reagan 80s where F** The Worker was the mantra and the stock market skyrocketed. Ferraris and Cigarette boats sold like hotcakes. Light aircraft didn't because, well, Wichita was run by idiots, losers, fundamentalist idiot morons and drunks. Still is. Beech could make a lot of money selling a recip T-34. They won't because, one, they are spoiled rotten with the New T-6, a misnomer and a buttf*** par excellence for Joe and Jane Taxpayer, and two, they are corporate-stupid. And if you are in Sedgwick County like I was, know this: I hope the Ollies finally get forced in the light airplane business and run your asses out of business like they were doing with Hardly-Ableson. |
#12
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Stop Making Sense
Blanche wrote:
my my my....is someone is not happy about college football outcomes? Must be a USC fan. |
#13
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Stop Making Sense
Bret Ludwig wrote:
It's a heinously expensive toy that will likely be a financial disaster no matter what. Not if you buy something resaleable. The value of all my planes has increased enough to cover all the money I put into them except for fuel. |
#14
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Stop Making Sense
[stuff deleted]
Although some of what Bret said is pretty outrageous, I do believe that general aviation would be better off if flight training emphasized the "sport" aspect more and the "travel" aspect less. I agree completely. When I started out, I had the impression that light airplanes were much more capable than they really are. I think this is an important point. The flight schools are trying to stay afloat and emphasize the "utility" of flying light airplanes. Their instructors have their sights on flying big iron. Both do a disservice to students when they don't stress the limitations of these planes. Pilots tempt fate by challenging weather that is inappropriate for their skills and these airplanes perhaps in part because the school and the instructors don't do enough to stress these limits. Neither one wants to scare away students and be put out of business. It is a fine line. Once I attained an instrument rating, it really became obvious on how limited these planes really were. Everyone said that an instrument rating would INCREASE the airplane's utility. I found that it did nothing of the sort. Flying in the clouds in winter often means icing and in the summer, thunderstorms. Adding in all sorts of modern gadgets may help you stay out of trouble (if you actually use them and heed their information), but you still end up on the ground waiting out the weather. So, safety can go way up but UTILITY is still not there. Sure, you can now see the pretty satellite downloaded image of the weather in your path, but you still have to fly around it. Given the high possibility of not making the planned flight, many choose not to go. For those who like "adventure" and are willing to sit in an airport for several hours or days to complete a flight, have a ball. I have had lively discussions about the above view. Usually it is with those who are in denial and want to keep the dream alive of a "personal airliner" in their mind's eye. After all, if you cannot really look forward to USING these things, what would be the point in the time and expense to fly? The answer is: you better love flying for its own sake (which some call "sport flying"). Good Luck, Mike |
#15
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Stop Making Sense
wrote in message ups.com... It seems to me that more people would get interested in flight training if the trainers were something like an updated Chipmunk. (Looks and feels like a military trainer, delightful handling and can do basic aerobatics if the student wants to.) It would have to have a nose wheel to make the insurance companies and instructors happy, but that wouldn't be too big a loss. You are in luck, they made exactly that plane years ago. I guess it never caught on: http://tinyurl.com/9dgx7 Vaughn |
#16
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Stop Making Sense
Once I attained an instrument rating, it really became obvious on how
limited these planes really were. Everyone said that an instrument rating would INCREASE the airplane's utility. I found that it did nothing of the sort. Flying in the clouds in winter often means icing and in the summer, thunderstorms. Adding in all sorts of modern gadgets may help you stay out of trouble (if you actually use them and heed their information), but you still end up on the ground waiting out the weather. So, safety can go way up but UTILITY is still not there. Sure, you can now see the pretty satellite downloaded image of the weather in your path, but you still have to fly around it. Given the high possibility of not making the planned flight, many choose not to go. For those who like "adventure" and are willing to sit in an airport for several hours or days to complete a flight, have a ball. Well put, Mike. This sums up exactly how I feel about VFR flying, the IFR ticket, and aircraft ownership. At our level of aircraft ownership (Spam can), instrument flight adds little utility to flying. However, unlike you, we *are* willing to sit in an airport for hours (not days) to complete a cross-country flight. Because we happen to really enjoy airports, this relatively rare occurrence (it's happened only a hand-full of times in eleven years) has become an acceptable -- even a delightful -- part of our many cross-country journeys. In fact, I dare say that we have often had *more* fun at our unexpected stops (3 days in Nashville come to mind) than we've had at our intended destinations! Remember, with personal flying, it's the journey, not the destination, that is important. Once you understand that, getting there isn't so important, and the stress simply evaporates. Our way of getting around the conundrum of unreliable weather is to simply plan three separate flights for each planned vacation. We routinely do this, and don't decide until the morning of our departure which way we're going to fly. Our entire decision depends on the current weather and prog charts, and -- since we really don't care *which* vacation we take -- we usually end up flying with great weather! Remember, personal flying *is* an adventure. Trying to make your airplane into a "personal airliner" is, IMHO, a huge mistake, as it is not only doomed to fail, but simply not any fun. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#17
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Stop Making Sense
Remember, with personal flying, it's the journey, not the
destination, that is important. Once you understand that, getting there isn't so important, and the stress simply evaporates. Exactly! Remember though, that when you accept the above as the reason for making the trip, you no longer are using the airplane as a "utility" for transportation. The fact that you are traveling is now incidental. You are really going out to enjoy what you encounter during the flight, and not just trying to get somewhere specifically. When we started out, we had the silly notion that the plane was going to be a faster car that could take us to specific places we wanted to go (farther away). As you said, you will be happier if you accept that the place you started out going to may not be where you end up. But the public contemplating flight does not handle "adventure" well. In this world where people are afraid of every little thing, the flight schools battle the "dangerous little airplane" syndrome. Their defense it often to sell the airplane as a safe tool for serious transportation. I think some of this stems from people who genuinely WANT to fly needing some sort of sane reason to justify the time and expense. When the plane is proposed as a transportation tool, these folks tend to focus on that. In doing so, they lose the real value (as you stated above) in merely FLYING. Mike |
#18
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Stop Making Sense
I found that the IFR ticket was the best thing for peace of mind. I
now don't fly in weather that I am allowed to, rather than the other way around. Climbing thru stratus to smooth air, decent thru same to land, seeing the beauty of sun on a cloud deck below ... Took off from SRQ a month ago with a 500 ft ceiling that was about 200 ft thick. The sight of TV towers poking thru when we got on top was something that the IFR ticket allowed. Chuck Jay Honeck wrote: Once I attained an instrument rating, it really became obvious on how limited these planes really were. Everyone said that an instrument rating would INCREASE the airplane's utility. I found that it did nothing of the sort. Flying in the clouds in winter often means icing and in the summer, thunderstorms. Adding in all sorts of modern gadgets may help you stay out of trouble (if you actually use them and heed their information), but you still end up on the ground waiting out the weather. So, safety can go way up but UTILITY is still not there. Sure, you can now see the pretty satellite downloaded image of the weather in your path, but you still have to fly around it. Given the high possibility of not making the planned flight, many choose not to go. For those who like "adventure" and are willing to sit in an airport for several hours or days to complete a flight, have a ball. Well put, Mike. This sums up exactly how I feel about VFR flying, the IFR ticket, and aircraft ownership. At our level of aircraft ownership (Spam can), instrument flight adds little utility to flying. However, unlike you, we *are* willing to sit in an airport for hours (not days) to complete a cross-country flight. Because we happen to really enjoy airports, this relatively rare occurrence (it's happened only a hand-full of times in eleven years) has become an acceptable -- even a delightful -- part of our many cross-country journeys. In fact, I dare say that we have often had *more* fun at our unexpected stops (3 days in Nashville come to mind) than we've had at our intended destinations! Remember, with personal flying, it's the journey, not the destination, that is important. Once you understand that, getting there isn't so important, and the stress simply evaporates. Our way of getting around the conundrum of unreliable weather is to simply plan three separate flights for each planned vacation. We routinely do this, and don't decide until the morning of our departure which way we're going to fly. Our entire decision depends on the current weather and prog charts, and -- since we really don't care *which* vacation we take -- we usually end up flying with great weather! Remember, personal flying *is* an adventure. Trying to make your airplane into a "personal airliner" is, IMHO, a huge mistake, as it is not only doomed to fail, but simply not any fun. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#19
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Stop Making Sense
On 7-Jan-2006, "Jay Honeck" wrote: Well put, Mike. This sums up exactly how I feel about VFR flying, the IFR ticket, and aircraft ownership. At our level of aircraft ownership (Spam can), instrument flight adds little utility to flying. I beg to differ. I fly a "spam can" (Arrow IV) and find that IFR capability (pilot and aircraft) adds enormously to utility. My use is about 30/70 respectively business/personal. There are many, many trips I have been able to safely complete IFR that I would not have even considered VFR. Some of that is regional, no doubt; we get a lot of IFR weather here in the Northwest. Icing is a factor that sometimes keeps me on the ground (or requires route adjustment) even with IFR capability. Nevertheless, travel in a light airplane cannot even come close to being reliable without IFR capability, with the possible exception of regions such as the American Southwest where IFR weather is rare. Most of my trips in the Arrow would be impossible by airline and impractical by car. Often it's a matter of going IFR or not going at all (or possibly taking the huge risk of VFR in marginal weather). -- -Elliott Drucker |
#20
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Stop Making Sense
I beg to differ. I fly a "spam can" (Arrow IV) and find that IFR
capability (pilot and aircraft) adds enormously to utility. My use is about 30/70 respectively business/personal. There are many, many trips I have been able to safely complete IFR that I would not have even considered VFR. Some of that is regional, no doubt; we get a lot of IFR weather here in the Northwest. The Weather Channel is reporting today that Seattle has had 20 straight days of rain. Portland has had 20 out of 21 days. Yep, it looks like if you live in the Northwest, it's IFR flight -- or nothing. Thankfully, that's the exception rather than the norm. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
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