Weather vs. Combat

Subject: Weather vs. Combat
From: "PosterBoy"
Date: 8/29/03 7:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Weather vs. Combat
From: "PosterBoy"
Date: 8/29/03 6:04 PM Pacific

(ILS REMAINS UNCHANGED)
More than one type of ILS system was tried. The system eventually adopted
consisted of a course indicator (called a localizer) that showed whether
the
plane was to the left or right of the runway centerline, a glide path or
landing beam to show if the plane was above or below the glide slope, and
two marker beacons for showing the progress of approach to the landing
field. Equipment in the airplane allowed the pilot to receive the
information that was sent so he could keep the craft on a perfect flight
path to visual contact with the runway. Approach lighting and other
visibility equipment are part of the ILS and also aid the pilot in
landing.
In 2001, the ILS remains basically unchanged.

(NINE LOCATIONS BY 1945, TEN UNDERWAY)
By 1945, nine CAA systems were operating and 10 additional locations were
under construction.

(ARMY INSTALLING 50)
Another 50 were being installed for the army. On January 15, 1945, the
U.S.
Army introduced an ILS with a higher frequency transmitter to reduce
static
and create straighter courses, called the Army Air Forces Instrument
Approach System Signal Set 51. In 1949, the International Civil Aviation
Organization (ICAO) adopted this army standard for all member countries.
In
the 1960s, the first ILS equipment for fully blind landings became
possible.

Cheers.




Here's the way we did it when flying out of Stansted England before D-Day.
.
You would taxi out to the head of the runway. If you could see the end of
the
runway you went. If you couldn't see the end of the runway you went
anyway.

Believe it, Art!!
Same-same K-2 in Korea, 'cept it was mainly haze from the breakfast kimchi
pots in the nearby village of Taegu!
And, I'm sure that the air conditioning system...which could and did blow
frost all around the '86 cockpit...made waiting for the haze to clear a bit
more pleasant than in the Maurader.

Cheers.



Our weather officer, Paul Forant (Boston) couldn't sleep nights and had a
recurring nightmare. He would dream he had the entire 344th in the air coming
back from a mission, low on fuel with wounded aboard with no place to bring us
down.

Radio range - bad thing was it took about 20 minutes to shoot the
approach, and jet fighters, including T33, had to start early to make
one. Also it was very susceptible to atmospheric electrics,. The
static was really a problem during storms. Of course it was always a
non-precision approach with the station located several miles minimum
from the field. Most precise approach possible was when a range leg
centered the runway. Otherwise you let down to minimum altitude and
flew time and distance to the missed approach point, hoping a lot. At
Big Spring Texas (Webb AFB) you went 'missed approach' promptly on
time because the final approach heading neatly bisected 'Bust Your
Ass' Hill. It was also a circling approach there because (ISTR) the
inbound heading was about 45 degrees from runway 17.
I never even saw an ILS approach until I came back from Okinawa about
3 years after graduation from Big Springs. First real WX ILS was at
LAX; I'd made two (2) under the hood prior to that. But ILS is very
very good. Saved my butt from an icy night on the ice cap up at Thule
- saw the runway about 25 feet up through a dense snow shower. Nearest
alternate was Alert, 400 miles away - and of course we never had
enough fuel left in our F102s to get there.
Walt BJ

(Walt BJ) wrote:

Radio range - bad thing was it took about 20 minutes to shoot the
approach, and jet fighters, including T33, had to start early to make
one. Also it was very susceptible to atmospheric electrics,. The
static was really a problem during storms. Of course it was always a
non-precision approach with the station located several miles minimum
from the field. Most precise approach possible was when a range leg
centered the runway. Otherwise you let down to minimum altitude and
flew time and distance to the missed approach point, hoping a lot. At
Big Spring Texas (Webb AFB) you went 'missed approach' promptly on
time because the final approach heading neatly bisected 'Bust Your
Ass' Hill. It was also a circling approach there because (ISTR) the
inbound heading was about 45 degrees from runway 17.

Speaking of that, the following entry in Dad's log:

8 Feb 59 -- Pilot involved in Minor Aircraft Accident. Due to
windshield icing the Pilot, 1/Lt. Royce K. Kortbain, AO 3038717
landed T-33A Type Aircraft 35 feet to the right of the Runway.
1/Lt. Robert A. Marron, AO 3065592 was flying as Co-Pilot.

I never even saw an ILS approach until I came back from Okinawa about
3 years after graduation from Big Springs. First real WX ILS was at
LAX; I'd made two (2) under the hood prior to that. But ILS is very
very good. Saved my butt from an icy night on the ice cap up at Thule
- saw the runway about 25 feet up through a dense snow shower. Nearest
alternate was Alert, 400 miles away - and of course we never had
enough fuel left in our F102s to get there.
Walt BJ

Anyone ever flown an NDB approach via an old fashioned
loop antenna? (For the readers unfamiliar with the terminology,
NDB means "Non Directional Beacon" which is usually a
low-freq signal emanating from a commercial AM radio station
or transmitter on the ground.)

On newer aircraft, the pilot tunes in an NDB station simply by
turning a dial in the cockpit, but many older (WW2-era) aircraft
required the pilot to crank a lever that physically rotated a loop
antenna mounted on top of, or beneath the fuselage so as to
pick up the NDB or radio station on the ground.

The Japanese planes that attacked Pearl Harbor homed in on
their targets via loop antennas tuned a commercial radio station
(imagine listening to peaceful Hawaiian music while plummeting
straight down at the USS Arizona with a 1,760-pound armor-piercing
bomb!)

-Mike Marron

Mike Marron wrote in message . ..
SNIP
Anyone ever flown an NDB approach via an old fashioned
loop antenna? (For the readers unfamiliar with the terminology,
NDB means "Non Directional Beacon" which is usually a
low-freq signal emanating from a commercial AM radio station
or transmitter on the ground.)

On newer aircraft, the pilot tunes in an NDB station simply by
turning a dial in the cockpit, but many older (WW2-era) aircraft
required the pilot to crank a lever that physically rotated a loop
antenna mounted on top of, or beneath the fuselage so as to
pick up the NDB or radio station on the ground.
SNIP:

In primary flight training in 1953 we had to do all those old things
in the T6G.
Radio range was done at Tallahassee; I forget where we did
non-directinal beacon NDB work. 'Manual loop' - RDF - was worse than
chewing gum and walking at the same time. The real answer was to do
the loop bit when straight and level, figure out which way to turn,
concentrate on the turn, level out, fool with the loop again. The
'dirty tricks' department put the ADF panel and loop crank handle down
between your ankles in the T33! FWIW RDF - manual control of the loop
- works better than ADF in bad static conditions. Also FWIW our 25
watt NDB homer at Naha AB on Okinawa was but a few Khz away from a
monster station at Shanghai. RDF worked better when out a hundred
miles or so. The simplest loop I ever heard of was a couple turns of
wire around the aft fuselage of a Piper Cub; gentle turns right and
left sufficed to find the bearing to the station. It took time, but
Cub pilots have a lot of that at 1.5 miles per minute.
Walt BJ
;

(Walt BJ) wrote:

In primary flight training in 1953 we had to do all those old things
in the T6G.
Radio range was done at Tallahassee; I forget where we did
non-directinal beacon NDB work. 'Manual loop' - RDF - was worse than
chewing gum and walking at the same time. The real answer was to do
the loop bit when straight and level, figure out which way to turn,
concentrate on the turn, level out, fool with the loop again. The
'dirty tricks' department put the ADF panel and loop crank handle down
between your ankles in the T33! FWIW RDF - manual control of the loop
- works better than ADF in bad static conditions. Also FWIW our 25
watt NDB homer at Naha AB on Okinawa was but a few Khz away from a
monster station at Shanghai. RDF worked better when out a hundred
miles or so. The simplest loop I ever heard of was a couple turns of
wire around the aft fuselage of a Piper Cub; gentle turns right and
left sufficed to find the bearing to the station. It took time, but
Cub pilots have a lot of that at 1.5 miles per minute.
Walt BJ
;

C'mon, Cubs go faster than that! I do recall, however, getting my
initial Cub flying around Chicago that with wind conditions right, you
could land and turn off at the approach end taxiway on many days and
with a 100 foot wide runway you could almost always land "into the
wind" by simply flying cross-runway.

As long as we're reminiscing about procedures from the dark ages, let
me throw in the infamous "time and distance" check we used to demand
of students in the T-37. Flown on a VOR, you turned to put the bearing
pointer on a wingtip, then timed how long it took to get a 10 degree
bearing change. Knowing your ground speed (which you usually didn't)
you could then calculate the distance from the station to fly that arc
in that length of time.

I guess it must have been accurate to within about ten miles. It never
made sense in a tiny jet which short legs to waste that much time
determining something you should have had a pretty good idea about
anyway.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038

"Ed Rasimus" wrote

I guess it must have been accurate to within about ten miles. It never
made sense in a tiny jet which short legs to waste that much time
determining something you should have had a pretty good idea about
anyway.

Probably just a mental exercise, where non other seemed to suffice.
Anything to keep the students from just enjoying the view...

Ed Rasimus wrote:
(Walt BJ) wrote:

In primary flight training in 1953 we had to do all those old things
in the T6G.
Radio range was done at Tallahassee; I forget where we did
non-directinal beacon NDB work. 'Manual loop' - RDF - was worse than
chewing gum and walking at the same time. The real answer was to do
the loop bit when straight and level, figure out which way to turn,
concentrate on the turn, level out, fool with the loop again. The
'dirty tricks' department put the ADF panel and loop crank handle down
between your ankles in the T33! FWIW RDF - manual control of the loop
- works better than ADF in bad static conditions. Also FWIW our 25
watt NDB homer at Naha AB on Okinawa was but a few Khz away from a
monster station at Shanghai. RDF worked better when out a hundred
miles or so. The simplest loop I ever heard of was a couple turns of
wire around the aft fuselage of a Piper Cub; gentle turns right and
left sufficed to find the bearing to the station. It took time, but
Cub pilots have a lot of that at 1.5 miles per minute.
Walt BJ

C'mon, Cubs go faster than that! I do recall, however, getting my
initial Cub flying around Chicago that with wind conditions right, you
could land and turn off at the approach end taxiway on many days and
with a 100 foot wide runway you could almost always land "into the
wind" by simply flying cross-runway.

Why not? Whereas I generally won't land perpindicular to the runway,
I routinely land aslant the runway (usually no more than a 45-deg.
angle to the runway centerline) in my trike so as to reduce the x-wind
component. And a Cub going faster than 90 miles per (groundspeed?)
I dunno, but I can comfortably fly in formation with Cubs and Champs
in my trike and it only cruises about 60-70 mph over the ground (in
calm air). When it comes to rate of climb, I spank 65-hp Cubs and
Champs with my 80-hp trike.

As long as we're reminiscing about procedures from the dark ages, let
me throw in the infamous "time and distance" check we used to demand
of students in the T-37. Flown on a VOR, you turned to put the bearing
pointer on a wingtip, then timed how long it took to get a 10 degree
bearing change. Knowing your ground speed (which you usually didn't)
you could then calculate the distance from the station to fly that arc
in that length of time.

The way we used to turn VOR's into DME's:

1) Turn perpindicular to the radial.
2) Note the time and number of degrees of change.
3) Divide time (in seconds) by the number of degrees of change
to obtain minutes away from the station.

For example, (it's been a while since I've done this, but it does
work), say you crossed 5-degrees in 2 minutes, 43 seconds (163
seconds). 163 divided by 5 = 32.6 minutes away from the station.

I guess it must have been accurate to within about ten miles. It never
made sense in a tiny jet which short legs to waste that much time
determining something you should have had a pretty good idea about
anyway.

Yeah, it was pretty much a WAG, but it kinda' works (accurate only
flying in "no-wind" conditions).

-Mike Marron

Mike Marron wrote:
(Walt BJ) wrote:

(Snip)

Anyone ever flown an NDB approach via an old fashioned
loop antenna? (For the readers unfamiliar with the terminology,
NDB means "Non Directional Beacon" which is usually a
low-freq signal emanating from a commercial AM radio station
or transmitter on the ground.)

I don't remember that we ever hand-cranked the loop, but I do remember turning
the loop back and forth from the cockpit looking for the null, which represented
the NDB. Isn't it funny what age does to the memory.....I remember doing it but
can't recall why or how it was supposed to work. BTW, I'm referring to a Troop
Carrier gooneybird, by way of type aircraft, and my time frame was from '43 to
the end of the war.


On newer aircraft, the pilot tunes in an NDB station simply by
turning a dial in the cockpit, but many older (WW2-era) aircraft
required the pilot to crank a lever that physically rotated a loop
antenna mounted on top of, or beneath the fuselage so as to
pick up the NDB or radio station on the ground.

The Japanese planes that attacked Pearl Harbor homed in on
their targets via loop antennas tuned a commercial radio station
(imagine listening to peaceful Hawaiian music while plummeting
straight down at the USS Arizona with a 1,760-pound armor-piercing
bomb!)

Hey, I just remembered how some of it worked. When you lined upthe plane of
your loop with the broadcasting station, signal reception disappeared (hence,
flying the null). You got your best signal reception when the opening in the
loop was perpendicular to the station it was tuned to. Flying the null in
itself didn't tell you if you were inbound or outbound, just that it was either
right ahead of you or right behind you. Seems to me that there was some sort of
turning maneuver that was used to watch the null movement that told us if we
were approaching the station or had just passed it. I can't recall the
explanation for how that worked.....it's been too many years, I guess.

George Z.

Ed Rasimus wrote:
(Walt BJ) wrote:

(Snip)

C'mon, Cubs go faster than that! I do recall, however, getting my
initial Cub flying around Chicago that with wind conditions right, you
could land and turn off at the approach end taxiway on many days and
with a 100 foot wide runway you could almost always land "into the
wind" by simply flying cross-runway.

I flew a J-3 up at Buffalo, NY in early '43, and recall looking out the side
while doing a little pilotage and observing cars passing me on the ground while
I was indicating about 65 mph. I'll fess up to a 20 mph headwind, so it wasn't
all that outrageous! (^-^)))


As long as we're reminiscing about procedures from the dark ages....

(Snip)

You call talking about T-37s the dark ages? Jeez, you really know how to hurt a
guy! (^-^)))

George Z.

Gooneybird wrote:
I flew a J-3 up at Buffalo, NY in early '43, and recall looking out
the side while doing a little pilotage and observing cars passing me
on the ground while I was indicating about 65 mph. I'll fess up to a
20 mph headwind, so it wasn't all that outrageous! (^-^)))


It's not too hard to be passed by cars when in slow flight. What was insulting
to me was flying some photographers around the old Charlotte Motor Speedway (now
Lowes) in a C-182 and being passed by the race cars... and I was running at 75%
power!


--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com