Bush flew fighter jets, but never over VIETNAM.

Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
Mike Williamson wrote in message ...

Of course he knew about the Golf Courses- he volunteered for
deployment to Vietnam, as you have known for some time, as it came
up several times in the newspapers, these forums, and even
television news.



As you know, he did not volunteer for deployment in Vietnam.
When he enlisted in the ANG he indicated that he did not want
to be stationsed overseas. Later, when he had only a couple of
years left, he did volunteer for a program that could have
deployed him overseas, but not necessarily in Vietnam. He didn't
have enough expience, and the aircraft for which he was qualified
was being phased out so, one does wonder why he did.


Well, here's a thought- perhaps he thought it was his only/last shot
at deploying and doing what he was trained for. BTW, the program was
not a PCS as I recall ("stationed overseas,") but a deployment, so not
being a volunteer for stationing overseas isn't the same thing- also,
I am not aware of all that many Guardsmen who have ever been volunteers
for overseas stationing- or that there are many National Guard troops
stationed (as opposed to deployed) overseas in any case. I am aware
of a couple, but in each case they were the spouse of an active duty
member and moved as a result of the active duty stationing, and picked
up a duty slot only after moving there.

Mike

From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 7/11/2004 8:12 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Bush flew fighter jets, but never over VIETNAM.
From: ojunk (Steve Mellenthin)
Date: 7/11/2004 1:03 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

I woulen't exactly call a 50 ship Linebacker a sortie.



What's a Linebacker?


Arthur Kramer

You pullin' my leg here or just haven't been readig the dialog here for the
last couple of years?

I'd say you will have to wait for Ed's next book but I wil cut you some
slack
because I've enjoyed your WWII stories.

Linebacker was the code name for Nixon's air campaign against North Vietnam
in
1972 as Rolling Thunder was under Johnson inprevious years. There were two
phases. LB One involved mostly fighter ops and LB Two was a concentrated
campaign using B-52s over RP 6.

A Linebacker mission involved fighters, fighter-bombers or bombers, escorts,
comm, early warning, combat air patrols (CAP), pre and post strike recon,
tankers, airborne command and control, rescue, jammers, electronic intel
(ELINT), among other functions. On the order of a large heavy bomber strike
in
the ETO. Same tonnage of bombs, just needed fewer planes to deliver.
Usually
50 - 100 planes or so.

I have been seeing linebacker in lots of messages and you are the first one
that explained it. Thanks. I guess that there was an assumption that everyone
here flew in Nam


Arthur Kramer

More likely the assumed people your age paid attention to the news during Viet
Nam and that most people here have at least a rough idea of military aviation
history.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Fred the Red Shirt wrote:

As you know, he did not volunteer for deployment in Vietnam.
When he enlisted in the ANG he indicated that he did not want
to be stationsed overseas.

You do know that these "dream sheets" were divided into two
parts: stateside and overseas, right? Any entry in the overseas
portion was considered volunteering for worldwide duty. If you
chose (for example) the UK and nothing else - your second (empty)
choice exactly matched the first opening in S.E. Asia, Korea,
Iceland, or Alaska (don't ask why its considered "overseas"...).

The smart guys filled in all the blocks with countries to which
they couldn't be assigned... they had volunteered, but not been
selected for any location in the world.

BUFDRVR wrote:

ArtKramr wrote:

I guess that there was an assumption that everyone
here flew in Nam

I was 3 years old when Linebacker I kicked off and 3 1/2 for Linebacker II and
I still knew what they were.....

I guess Art slept through most of the 60s and 70s.
It was in all the papers...

On 12 Jul 2004 01:17:58 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: Bush flew fighter jets, but never over VIETNAM.
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 7/11/2004 1:41 PM Pac

Art, I recall sending you a copy of When Thunder Rolled. If you read
it, you'll find a clear explanation of what the Route Packages were
and you won't have to ask questions like "what's a Pack 6

Never got it. If I had I would have read it cover to cover non stop and
discussed it here with you. I wonder where it went?

I sent you the full manuscript by email, pre-publication. You're even
mentioned in the acknowledgements among those who read and provided
input regarding the readability.

You can buy it at Amazon.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Subject: Bush flew fighter jets, but never over VIETNAM.
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 7/12/2004 8:05 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 12 Jul 2004 01:17:58 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: Bush flew fighter jets, but never over VIETNAM.
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 7/11/2004 1:41 PM Pac

Art, I recall sending you a copy of When Thunder Rolled. If you read
it, you'll find a clear explanation of what the Route Packages were
and you won't have to ask questions like "what's a Pack 6

Never got it. If I had I would have read it cover to cover non stop and
discussed it here with you. I wonder where it went?

I sent you the full manuscript by email, pre-publication. You're even
mentioned in the acknowledgements among those who read and provided
input regarding the readability.

You can buy it at Amazon.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8


Yes, the manuscript. I remember. I am still waiting for Barnes and Noble to get
the book in. Think I'll go down and jostle thjem today.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Ian MacLure wrote in message .. .
(WalterM140) wrote in
:

[snip]

When I clicked the link and scrolled down it shows a box outlined in
red that says:

"I do/do not volunteer for overseas service."

Bush checked "Do not".

And later changed his mind.
Funny you don't mention that part.

IBM


Can you show a source that Bush did volunteer for duty overseas?
Because in February, 1968, he declined to do so.

I am not denying that he did, but I've seen no proof. Further, I've
never even seen it suggested.

Walt

"Ed Rasimus" wrote
You're even mentioned in the acknowledgements among those who
read and provided input regarding the readability.

That was his Caddy.

"WalterM140" wrote

Can you show a source that Bush did volunteer for duty overseas?

You act as if the world ended 30 years ago. People have had a life
and real accomplishments since then. Is your whole life about what you
did in the late 60's, with nothing accomplished after that?

The guy was a fricking Governor, for Christ's sakes. You think people
just vote for anyone?

Get a life.

ArtKramr wrote:

You must be unusually brilliant.

Hardly.

Do you know gat operation Casy Jones was in WW
II?

I plead ignorance on that one. Operation Market Garden and of course Overlord
are the only named operations of WWII I know off the top of my cranium.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"