US Airways - NEVER AGAIN !!!

I used to fly a considerable amount
of commercial. I plan to never fly commercial again. Doesn't matter where
the problem(s) lies, commercial airline travel sucks big time.

Me too - same sentiment. The airlines refuse to adopt SOPs to handle the
weather and FAA issues, imho.

I went full bore to earn my ticket after it took more than 24 hours to fly
from VA to MI and another 24 hours back (Tstorms in Chicago both ways). It's
a 4 hour flight in a 172 and/or a 12 hour car ride. The date of that
infamous trip was Labor Day weekend, 2001.

Back in January I flew MCO to LAX. On the return, there was some localized
1mi vis fog in PHX (of all places). It took over 36 hours to fly LAX PHX
MCO. The airline (whose airplanes are white with red and green markings)
has 60+ gates, but once we got to PHX we burnt jet fuel for 90 minutes in
the penalty box. (There's no OP (AFAIK) to get the idle planes off one or
two gates and deplane the inbounds....) And, yes, in a 172 I could have made
the return trip, avoiding the fog, in a little less time - having control
over the plan. Granted, MCO LAX would have taken longer, but I had already
invested 8 or so hours flying JYO MLB to leave the kids with the
grandparents. (It takes 6 hours plus checkin and baggage recovery time on DL
on a good day through ATL).

Dana Carvey's "Bush" could say it best about commercial air travel- "Not
gonna do it...wouldn't be prudent."

IIRC, the airlines that don't operate hubs are the ones making money. Alas,
most of them don't go where I need/want to go.

--

Bob
PP-ASEL-IA, AGI/IGI

PS2727 wrote:
most realize
that sometimes things just don't go according to plan. I have always thought
airlines should be more forthcoming in telling customers that not all flights
will be on time and that it's simply not possible to make flying 100% reliable.

Actually I think airlines have been at considerable pains to persuade
pax that flying is as close to 100% reliable as anything on earth and
that they should be able to expect to get there on time. If people have
unreasonable expectations, it's from believing the commercials.

That's what many people are paying for -- convenience and reliability,
trading the purchase price of the ticket for a presumed savings in
rare time off.

If they were given an accurate description of airline travel today
(expect many delays, plan an extra day transit each way), IMO many
would choose an alternate means of transportation. It's certainly
possible to drive from the midwest to the East coast or Denver in
1 day, though tiring and uncomfortable. Trains are also a possible
alternative between some locations.

Ever stood in an old train station, admired the size and architecture,
and thought to yourself how, 50-60 years ago when these things were
built people thought this was "it", the transportation of the future,
and that they were building for generations of users to follow? Now
it's a hotel, or a shopping mall, or both, and the train station may
be a little hut across town with 1 pax train a day.

I have the same feelings when I stand in a busy airport terminal.
We're about 45 years into the golden age of commercial aviation,
and I find myself wondering when it will be gone and what will
replace it in 50 or 40 or 30 or 10 years.

Scotty, beam me to 'Frisco?
Sydney

"Capt. Doug" wrote
You didn't mention the reasons for their tardiness. I understand your
frustration, but am not quite ready to place all the blame squarely on the
airline.

That's irrelevant. When you sell something to a customer, and then
the customer doesn't get what he was promised, then it's your fault.
Even if you put somewhere in the fine print that he might not get what
he was promised, it's still your fault. That arrival time you print
on the ticket? That's a promise. If you have certain
suppliers/vendors/regulators who are known not to be reliable, then
it's your responsibility to either replace them or factor in the
unreliability into your schedules.

My flight yesterday (NOT for Scareways) started 4 hours late. Our plane was
delayed inbound for 3 hours because of flow control problems in Chicago. The
airline can't do anything about it.

Really? Were you shocked that there were flow control problems in
Chicago? How about mildly surprised? No? Is it maybe because the
airline has scheduled way too many flights to arrive and depart at the
same time from the same little patch of concrete, knowing there's not
a chance in hell that will work except under ideal conditions?

See, the airline CAN do something about it. It can schedule
realistically. If you know the airport can't possibly handle 200
operations in an hour except under ideal conditions, then don't
schedule 200 operations. Really, it's that simple.

In the meantime, a
police officer showed up at the cabin entrance and asked for a female
passenger to be removed. It turns out that the woman had assaulted her
intransigent teenage daughter while in the terminal.

While I'm certainly not making excuses for assault (there is no excuse
for assault) the fact remains that people are only human, and when
their plans are screwed up due to circumstances beyond their control
they get angry and frustrated, and some are prone to violence. And if
the scheduling had allowed for reasonable airport capacity, rather
than what you can get under ideal conditions, there probably would
have been no assault and consequent investigation.

I have little doubt that a few of our frustrated passengers may swear off
traveling with us again. On the other hand, I know that trips with such
frustration are the exception.

No they're not. In my experience, they're the rule. And I can assure
you that at this point, MOST of your frustrated passengers are only
flying because they have no choice (meaning as a condition of
employment) and many would be happy to see you all go out of business
so they could take alternate transportation.

I also know that traveling by personal
aircraft has it's own frustrations.

Yeah. Like just a few months ago I had a mechanical problem - right
engine starter bendix wouldn't engage. Takeoff was delayed by two
hours while I decowled the engine, cleaned out the bendix, and
reassembled. Funny, though - I didn't miss any of my connections,
didn't have to sit for hours in a tiny cramped seat, didn't have to
eat crappy food, and didn't tell my passengers how it wasn't my fault.

Michael

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
"Capt. Doug" wrote

My flight yesterday (NOT for Scareways) started 4 hours late. Our plane
was
delayed inbound for 3 hours because of flow control problems in Chicago.
The
airline can't do anything about it.

Really? Were you shocked that there were flow control problems in
Chicago? How about mildly surprised? No? Is it maybe because the
airline has scheduled way too many flights to arrive and depart at the
same time from the same little patch of concrete, knowing there's not
a chance in hell that will work except under ideal conditions?

See, the airline CAN do something about it. It can schedule
realistically. If you know the airport can't possibly handle 200
operations in an hour except under ideal conditions, then don't
schedule 200 operations. Really, it's that simple.

Flow control delay is determined by *all* airlines, not just one particular
airline. It can also change when non-scheduled planes arrive, presidents
decide to have haircuts on the taxiway, passengers start fights and a
whole load of other externals which aren't under the control of the airline
you've decided to ride on. Not to mention unpredicted weather.

It's all a trade off. If you are really determined to get where you want
to be exactly on schedule, then pick an airline that schedules just
once per day, so the plane is ready and waiting for you when you turn
up. That would push up the costs tremendously, and even then you
wouldn't be guaranteed an on-time arrival, or even departure.

You should check the Federally-mandated airline on-time statistics &
use your common sense. Me, I tend to prefer Southwest because they're
cheaper. But I know that they maintain their low cost by minimising
idle time. So generally, any cumulative delays mean that they're unlikely
to be on time later in the day, since the plane has done several legs
before mine. But that's fine by me. I try to travel early in the day.
Really,
it's that simple.

"Even if we were under full scale attack I couldn't move any faster, not and
maintain a safety factor." -- Scotty, The Naked Time, stardate 1704.2,
Episode 7

or

"I cannot change the laws of physics...I've got to have thirty minutes!" --
Scotty

Either way, I'm seeing transporter delays in your future.

--
Montblack


("Sydney Hoeltzli" wrote)
snip
Scotty, beam me to 'Frisco?

Its being a bit unrealistic to take this out on a flight crew member.
They are just the "bus driver" (no offense intended) doing all they can to
keep on schedule and ensure safe operation of the aircraft. The all of my
problems with airlines stem from the "customer service" personnel and their
ideas of what customer service entails. A couple good examples:

1. A large group of passengers from a cruise ship delayed from the ship.
Untied Airlines check-in at LAX is backed up forever. Departure is in 30
min. All the 1st class check-in lines are empty and the personnel do
nothing, even after being told about the problem. "I'm sorry sir, this is
first class check in."

2. Flight on America Worst from PHX to SBA. Gate personnel tell us that
there is fog in Santa Barbara and we have a choice of boarding the plane
with a decision to be made enroute about diverting to Bakersfield. If that
is the decision, "You will be de-planed at Bakersfield and our obligation to
you has ended." OR you can make other arrangements and not get on the plane.
"Sorry, its the weather, not our fault."

Lots of crap like this. None of it is the flight crews fault, but they
are usually the ones that have to put up with the "fall out" from ****ed off
customers. When I do fly commercial, I regard the time in the plane as
relaxation. Look out the window and realize that for now I don't have to put
up with some B.S. the marketing people give customer service as a "reason"
why things aren't their fault.


--
Kevin McCue
KRYN
'47 Luscombe 8E
Rans S-17 (for sale)




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ackatyu (Wdtabor) wrote in message ...
snippage
If I scheduled so that eveything had to go perfectly or
the whole day went to ****, I would run like US Airways too.

Unfortunately, most airlines operate with zero slack in their
schedules. Your horror story is repeated on most airlines every day.
I haven't set foot on an airliner in 4 years, and truly dread the day
I have to do it again.

And that is the point. They didn't just have a single problem flight. Every
flight on my itinerary was a problem. They were consistently incompetent and
didn't give a damn.

Quote snipped from another thread, but it seems quite appropriate
here :

But Candace Kolander of the Association of Flight Attendants union says the
airline industry has become too obsessed with pleasing passengers.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Long ago I flew from Austin, TX to Burlington VT in a lovely Seminole I
owned at the time.
N2196B; Is she still at Palwaukee?
Two colleagues from work went commercial (I was giving a talk at a
scientific conference).
I beat them. By 10 hours.
More recently my daughter left Richmond on some damn airline; At the same
time I left in my P Baron.
She was 11 hours later than me and my 58P.
Airlines suck. Buses suck for the same reasons.
Excepting Southwest and Quantas and one or two others.
Maybe. Once-in-a-while. Like when you want to go to Australia.
H.
N502TB

"John Galban" wrote in message
om...
ackatyu (Wdtabor) wrote in message
...
snippage
If I scheduled so that eveything had to go perfectly or
the whole day went to ****, I would run like US Airways too.

Unfortunately, most airlines operate with zero slack in their
schedules. Your horror story is repeated on most airlines every day.
I haven't set foot on an airliner in 4 years, and truly dread the day
I have to do it again.

And that is the point. They didn't just have a single problem flight.
Every
flight on my itinerary was a problem. They were consistently incompetent
and
didn't give a damn.

Quote snipped from another thread, but it seems quite appropriate
here :

But Candace Kolander of the Association of Flight Attendants union says
the
airline industry has become too obsessed with pleasing passengers.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Michael wrote:

Yeah. Like just a few months ago I had a mechanical problem - right
engine starter bendix wouldn't engage. Takeoff was delayed by two
hours while I decowled the engine, cleaned out the bendix, and
reassembled.

Was it that long? Didn't seem like working on the plane took
that long. Must be because you stopped to gobble down BBQ Pork Loin
or whatever carnivorous material y'all were devouring, fresh salad
which actually had flavor, topped off with the (in)famous brownies.
Catch that being served on an airline during a mechanical or wx
delay

Cheers,
Sydney

Appropriate management of maintenance completely prevents such things.
I once had a perfect P Baron.
Victor Sloan runs a great shop, by the way;
And I paid HIM a lot of money to be able to say that.
Beech did my first ($40K) annual.
Now I question the point of insurance; THAT'LL MAKE FLYING CHEAPER!!
AIG blows. "How 'bout we cobble something together at the wreckong yard for
$170K?"
Beech SN TJ415 (Anniversary Edition) deserves repair at Beech.
By the book.
H.
N502TB

"Sydney Hoeltzli" wrote in message
...
Michael wrote:

Yeah. Like just a few months ago I had a mechanical problem - right
engine starter bendix wouldn't engage. Takeoff was delayed by two
hours while I decowled the engine, cleaned out the bendix, and
reassembled.

Was it that long? Didn't seem like working on the plane took
that long. Must be because you stopped to gobble down BBQ Pork Loin
or whatever carnivorous material y'all were devouring, fresh salad
which actually had flavor, topped off with the (in)famous brownies.
Catch that being served on an airline during a mechanical or wx
delay

Cheers,
Sydney