anal sphincter muscles at Sporty's just lost a customer

(journeyman) writes:

Cool. I'm planning to drive up to Ottawa in a couple of weeks for a
visit. I'll plan to drop in on them. Sounds like it's similar to a
store in Seattle (which sells all maps except aviation) that I have
used (and hope to use again) for topo maps of hiking trails.

World of Maps is definitely worth a visit for anyone even remotely
interested in cartography. It's at Holland and Wellington, about 10
minutes' drive from Centretown (five blocks west of the Ottawa Bagel
Shop).

If you're going to be flying to Canada semi-regularly, you're much
better off subscribing for the CFS and the IFR charts:

http://www.navcanada.ca/contentEN/aeropubs/default.asp

The price difference is significant. Individually, the CFS costs CAD
29.00, or CAD 203.00 for all seven in a year. If you subscribe, you
get seven editions of the CFS for CAD 99.00 instead. The same thing
works for the CAP and the IFR charts. You will have a CAD 35.00
handling charge on the order for the U.S. (CAD 30.00 for within
Canada), so it makes sense to get more than just the CFS if you're
interested.

I personally find it very cool having all this stuff arrive
shrinkwrapped at my house every few weeks, always promptly (usually in
several separate packages). I subscribe to the CFS, the Ontario and
Quebec CAPs, the IFR Terminal Area Charts, and the a LO chart for
Windsor-Quebec, all for about the same cost as buying just a year's
worth of CFS's at the store.


All the best,


David

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/

In a previous article, (journeyman) said:
Last time I checked the NavCanada site, they only shipped on
subscription. Until I stop renting and buy my own plane, I might only

Well, I've got a subscription. Considering that a year's worth of charts
costs less than three times as much as one set of charts, it seemed
logical to me.

The NavCanada web site lists www.aerotraining.com as another US
distributor if you don't want to go to Sportys. I just looked, and they
only want $13.49 for the CFS.

--
Paul Tomblin , not speaking for anybody
"If you would like a transcript of this program, sit next to your radio with a
pencil and paper and write really fast." - The WRVO Playhouse.

David Megginson writes:

World of Maps is definitely worth a visit for anyone even remotely
interested in cartography. It's at Holland and Wellington, about 10
minutes' drive from Centretown (five blocks west of the Ottawa Bagel
Shop).

For "west", read "east" -- not that pilots are supposed to be good
with directions, of course.


All the best,


David

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/

journeyman wrote in message
u.com...

Just got off the phone with them and I am Not Pleased. I put in a
web order this morning for the Canadian CFS and some approach plates.
They're on a 56-day cycle, my current set expires today and I was
hoping to do trip this weekend. So, I was willing to pay extra for
next-day service.

Got a voice mail at 3:15 saying the charts were on back order. So,
I called to cancel the next-day shipping. Apparently, the IFR hood
I tacked onto the order (old one's no longer usable) was already
shipped, so they will bill me for overnight shipping for the entire
order. I'm willing to pay extra to have the charts tomorrow. They're
charging for it but failing provide what they charged for. Not enough
to be worth the time and energy to fight it, but annoying enough for
me to do no further business with them.

Anyone have a reliable source of Canadian charts for an occasionally
homesick canuk?


I've been very happy with mypilotstore.com-- they once made good on a
misunderstanding that was mostly my fault. I've had my chart subscription
with them ever since (a year or so). I see that they now have Canadian
Charts...

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:38:27 GMT, Sydney Hoeltzli wrote:
Which reminds me, I used my AOPA Mastercard, so I should take this up
with AOPA for whatever good that will do...
Morris (not so naive to believe it would actually do any good...)

Morris, I'm confused, are you saying that writing the Mastercard
people won't do you any good? If you feel you've been billed for

I'm saying I should persue it with AOPA, since AOPA advertizes Sporty's.
And Sporty's takes AOPA membership numbers for a discount. Since my
dissatisfaction fell on deaf ears at Sporty's, maybe AOPA is another
avenue to get Sporty's attention. I just don't think it'll really
accomplish anything.

a service you didn't receive (overnight shipping of charts which
were out of stock). Draft a letter disputing the charge. Then

From my perspective, that's what happened. From their perspective,
I made a rush order that they could only partially fulfill. For me,
the rush was the charts. They rushed an IFR hood I could get anywhere,
anytime.

I think they screwed up. I've already cancelled the back-ordered
charts. When the hood arrives I will send it back to them and they
will issue a refund according to their policy. We'll probably argue
over who should be responsible for the return shipping (I say it was
their error; based on my conversation with them about the shipping,
they'll probably insist that they shipped what I asked for), but they
will issue the refund according to their policy. That will be the end
of that and I will never order from Sporty's again.

What I'm annoyed about is them sending the hood overnight and billing
me for the premium delivery. The extra $20 or so for the shipping
is a small irritation in the grand scheme of things, but I'm not
willing to pay it for something that isn't a rush. The rush was for
the charts, which they could not deliver on.

The fact that they can't deliver the charts on time, while annoying
in itself, is not something I can blame them for. It's clearly
beyond their control. Fine. In that case, it's no longer a rush,
but I want the charts anyway when they do arrive.

If they had any business sense, they'd eat the cost of the rush
shipping for the hood, and send me the back-ordered charts regular
delivery when they do arrive (assuming I didn't find the charts needed
for the weekend flight elsewhere). They'd have retained a customer
instead of a ****ed-off ex-customer. Even issuing an in-store credit
to cut their losses would've left me satisfied.

The only leverage I have in this situation is their desire for retain
the goodwill of a customer, or my bitching about it in public. They're
not interested in the former, so I'm willing to post my complaint here.

make an adjustment now, instead. Let them know that people on the
internet are waiting to see how they respond. I was about to order
a couple of things from Sporty's actually but I can live without
them or go elsewhere.

I appreciate that.

I realize this is petty in the grand scheme of things. Every once
of these really petty things sets me off way out of proportion.
Mostly it's the cumultive irritation of all the other ignored petty
irritations of life. Not to mention the major irritations that I
can do nothing about...

My spleen is sufficiently vented for the moment.


Good luck,

Thanks. I'm going to try to beg/borrow/steal a CFS for Sunday and
forego the IAPs.

Thanks to everyone for the alternate source suggestions.


Morris

journeyman wrote:

From my perspective, that's what happened. From their perspective,
I made a rush order that they could only partially fulfill. For me,
the rush was the charts. They rushed an IFR hood I could get anywhere,
anytime.

Here's my perspective. You're going to disagree with it.

You're taking a trip this weekend, so on Thursday you think to look at
your charts and find that they expire that day. You call Sporty's and
order some. "Yeah, I'm in a big hurry, so I'll pay extra for fast
shipping. Oh--throw in an IFR hood, too." Sporty's found that the
charts were on backorder and called you asap. You were not there, so
they left a voice mail. They knew you were in a hurry, so they rushed
what they could. Since only the charts were important to you, and not
the hood, you're mad that they want you to pay for overnight shipping on
the hood. You get on the newsgroup and scream about what assholes they
are at Sporty's.

Many here dislike Sporty's, so you're not alone. However, this problem
would have been avoided if you had been a little more careful managing
your chart inventory.

Tim

"journeyman" wrote in message u.com...
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:46:34 -0400, G.R. Patterson III
wrote:

Just got off the phone with them and I am Not Pleased.

Were I in your shoes, I would call VISA (which is what I use) and stop
payment on the order.

Which reminds me, I used my AOPA Mastercard, so I should take this up
with AOPA for whatever good that will do...

It won't do much to tallk to AOPA. AOPA's interest is how much of a kickback
MBNA will give them. MBNA's credit card department (ohter than
their habit of losing the rebate requrests) actually isn't too bad. I can't say
the same for MBNA's aircraft loan department. What a bunch of jerks.

I could have avoided the problem by not adding in the noncritical item.

I could have avoided the problem by phoning in the order instead of
using the web.


****WARNING - DEVIL'S ADVOCATE AHEAD****

When the order hit the shipping department, if they had said, "Well its not
the entire order, so we'll wait until we hear from him to determine whether
to ship it or not". Then when they can't reach you to determine what to do,
they don't ship ANYTHING because they don't want to overnight the wrong
part. I would be more furious with that scenario.

If you were in DIRE need of the hood and agreed to pay for overnight
shipping....and oh yeah throw in some new approach plates too. Wouldn't you
now be singing the praises of how efficient Sporty's is? How were they to
know which part was needed in a hurry?

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:53:55 -0500, Jeff Franks
wrote:

When the order hit the shipping department, if they had said, "Well its not
the entire order, so we'll wait until we hear from him to determine whether
to ship it or not". Then when they can't reach you to determine what to do,
they don't ship ANYTHING because they don't want to overnight the wrong
part. I would be more furious with that scenario.

If you were in DIRE need of the hood and agreed to pay for overnight
shipping....and oh yeah throw in some new approach plates too. Wouldn't you
now be singing the praises of how efficient Sporty's is? How were they to
know which part was needed in a hurry?

This is not entirely unreasonable from a distance. Thing is, someone
from the cutomer service department took the time and trouble (i.e.
did what they're supposed to be paid to do) to call and leave a voice
message, but left out 2 key elements: 1) that they would proceed with
the partial shipment, and 2) that if it wasn't my preference, to call
back before [some arbitrary time]. Even then, I did call them back,
only a few minutes after [some arbitrary time]. If they had handled
that half-assed voice message properly in the first place, when I didn't
get it in time, I might have been inclined to be more "reasonable" about
the situation.

Put things in the worst possible light (for me): they tried their best
and had to guess my wishes. They guessed wrong even if they tried to
do the Right Thing. I still say they should eat the extra cost of the
wrong guess just to keep a repeat customer happy. Anything less than
that might or might not be tolerable. Today, I don't find it tolerable.
Tomorrow, I might quietly accept it and just find another supplier.
Last week, I might just shrug it off and continue doing business with
them. Next month, who knows?

Most customers won't blow a gasket and go nonlinear in this situation.
As I acknowledged before, it's minor in the Grand Scheme of Things. One
doesn't have a very happy life if one can't let go of the small stuff.
It's really the cumulative effect of a lot of small stuff (and some big
stuff) that primes the fuse for the next one.

Besides, IFR hoods aren't exactly so rare that I would be desperate to
buy one from Sporty's on the day the charts roll over.

Compare this to another situation on this thread:

| I've been very happy with mypilotstore.com-- they once made good on a
| misunderstanding that was mostly my fault. I've had my chart subscription
| with them ever since (a year or so).

This is how to handle customer service issues and the result is a loyal,
happy customer. If you can't compete on price (and Sporty's doesn't),
what else do you have to go on?

This is the highest possible recommendation. Last time I looked at
mypilotstore.com, they didn't have Canadian charts. Now that they do,
guess where I'm going to be buy my charts from now on.


Morris (with thanks for the recommendations of alternate suppliers)

journeyman wrote:

Most customers won't blow a gasket and go nonlinear in this situation.

No kidding.

Tim