Best dogfight gun?

On 5 Dec 2003 07:42:43 -0800, (robert arndt) wrote:

Chad Irby wrote in message om...
In article ,
(robert arndt) wrote:

The M61 is a poor substitute for this bad baby:

http://www.airforce-technology.com/c.../mauser21.html

...if you don't mind only firing 1,700 rounds per minute as opposed to
about 6,000...

...when the M61 doesn't jam, that is.

Carried an M61 in the F-105 and the F-4E for 250 combat missions.
Carried the SUU-16 and SUU-23 on F-4Cs for four years. Carried the
SUU-11 mini-gun on AT-38s and fired literally hundreds of thousands of
rounds over 23 years of tactical experience. Never experienced a
single M61 variant jamming. Never saw on jam in any flight that I was
on. Never heard anyone talk about one jamming in any squadron I was
in. Doesn't sound, based on a limited empirical sampling like a
problem.

I prefer Mauser's BK-27
jam-proof linkless and up-coming dual feed version.

Should we note that the drum-fed internally carried M-61 is linkless?

BTW, in close combat 6000 rpm bursts don't mean that much.

You're correct. "Close combat" is stupid. It means you screwed up at
several earlier decision points. But, if you reach that point, why
don't 6K RPM bursts mean much? Would a 1K RPM burst be more
meaningful? Or were you suggesting that more RPM would be desireable.

If the burst will be on the target for .2 seconds, would it be better
to have more rounds or fewer during that interval?

A
1,700-1,800 rpm burst of 27mm fire from the single-barrel BK-27 will
ruin your day, especially with frangible ammo.

How about HEI instead of "frangible"? I'm not worried about
frangibility, as I would be if discharging a .45 ACP at a burglar in a
mid-town apartment. I'm worried about damaging the airframe and that
means HEI or maybe HEI/API mix.

Now if only the Germans could fit the amazing 30mm RMK inside the
Typhoon... but I'm sure it will find its way onto the Tiger helo.

Going from .50 cal to 20mm to 25mm to 30mm, etc, always incurs a
weight penalty. There are trade-offs between weight, ballistics,
accuracy, burst density, etc. Consider that one round of 155mm would
surely result in a kill, do we than suggest mounting artillery in the
nose of fighters? Clearly hyperbole for argument's sake.

Consider further that a gun will be carried on every sorties for the
life of the aircraft and for most aircraft will never be fired at
another aircraft in anger.

"Hoser" said, "There's no kill like a gun kill...." but, that may be
because gun kills are so damn rare.



Rob